D&D 5E 2024 D&D is 2014 D&D with 4E sprinkled on top

[Micah Sweet]

Barbarians get rage at level 1. Monks get focus at level 2. All spellcasters get spells at level 1. Fighters and rogues don't need to wait until 10th level to do cool things. Not unless you want to start dialing back a lot of other classes as well. (Maybe move rage back to 5th, paladin smites to 10th, etc?)

I think there are plenty of cool non-supernatural things fighters, rogues, and other 5e martial classes can do before they need to cross over into the supernatural realm.

 

[Remathilis]

I think there are plenty of cool non-supernatural things fighters, rogues, and other 5e martial classes can do before they need to cross over into the supernatural realm.

Would you be fine with moving other martial's supernatural abilities back 5-10 levels as well? (Barbarian, monk, ranger and paladin would remain non-supernatural for low levels?)

 

[CreamCloud0]

Barbarian was literally primal powered in 4e. The 2024 PHB literally says "Barbarians are mighty warriors who are powered by primal forces of the multiverse that manifest as a Rage." You can ignore it if you want, but barbarians are supernatural from level 1.

it might BE magic in DnD but i'm saying there's no reason it HAS TO BE.

Either explain why your extraordinary or play an NPC.

the grit of my teeth and a steel will.

 

[Remathilis]

it might BE magic in DnD but i'm saying there's no reason it HAS TO BE.

But it is. And that's why a barbarian takes 50% less damage from a ballista than a fighter.

the grit of my teeth and a steel will.

And you will die with gritted teeth. Or your steel will unlocks the wellspring of supernatural power that lays dormant in you and you do the remarkable things needed to fell gods and demons.

 

[Zardnaar]

But it is. And that's why a barbarian takes 50% less damage from a ballista than a fighter.

And you will die with gritted teeth. Or your steel will unlocks the wellspring of supernatural power that lays dormant in you and you do the remarkable things needed to fell gods and demons.

AD&D mundane killed gods. Might need to quest fir a magic weapon.

Better number for a mundane can work. 2024 fighter is really hard to hit with a save or suck making them semi immune to spells that don't deal damage.

AD&D fighters had that as well.

You could go further eg make them proficient in all saved. They used to get more attacks as well that's true now in 5E.

Depends on how large those numbers are. For whatever reason WotC gas been reluctant to do it since 3.0.

If they had +20 to hit, saves, damage etc no one would be saying the mundane fighter sucked.

Most people here haven't seen a high level 1 in action in 2024. I've seen level 12 ECMO3 has seen level 20.

It's funny as some people are pushing an agenda but due to lack of actual practical experience they're actually objectively wrong. Subjectively you may not like the design but new Champion is fairly nasty imho.

 

[Remathilis]

AD&D mundane killed gods. Might need to quest fir a magic weapon.

Better number for a mundane can work. 2024 fighter is really hard to hit with a save or suck making them semi immune to spells that don't deal damage.

AD&D fighters had that as well.

You could go further eg make them proficient in all saved. They used to get more attacks as well that's true now in 5E.

Depends on how large those numbers are. For whatever reason WotC gas been reluctant to do it since 3.0.

If they had +20 to hit, saves, damage etc no one would be saying the mundane fighter sucked.

Most people here haven't seen a high level 1 in action in 2024. I've seen level 12 ECMO3 has seen level 20.

It's funny as some people are pushing an agenda but due to lack of actual practical experience they're actually objectively wrong. Subjectively you may not like the design but new Champion is fairly nasty imho.

Then this whole discussion was a waste because the fighter is epic enough as is.

Done.

 

[Zardnaar]

Then this whole discussion was a waste because the fighter is epic enough as is.

Done.

Well as I said it's subjective.

Current one tentatively reminds me a bit of the greatest fighters I've seen in D&D. 2E ones. Mundane but with magical equipment .

Kill a lich, marilith, dragon one after the other solo 1 round each. Level 13/14.

Weapon specialization, good AC, good saves hard to stop. Mundane fighter doesn't have to suck.

Modern design has made them suck. 3.0 screwed them over, 4E anticipated damage better defenders, 5E massive holes on saving throws (DC 20 fear you suck).

5.5 though it's a hmmmn maybe the second coming. ECM03 claimed indomitable was OP I'm thinking finally it's about time.

I have no issue with fighters making saves 75-95% of the time. Wish monsters could do that.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Would you be fine with moving other martial's supernatural abilities back 5-10 levels as well? (Barbarian, monk, ranger and paladin would remain non-supernatural for low levels?)

I mean, sure, but I don't really see the need, unless keeping those classes non-supernatural is important. I know Level Up has a non-supernatural (more or less) ranger, which along with the marshal and savant really ups the ratio.

 

[Hussar]

Then this whole discussion was a waste because the fighter is epic enough as is.

Done.

Which is how this conversation always goes.

I keep telling you, baby steps.

 

[dave2008]

Would you be fine with moving other martial's supernatural abilities back 5-10 levels as well? (Barbarian, monk, ranger and paladin would remain non-supernatural for low levels?)

I would except for maybe paladin as they, in my mind, are using the power of the their gods to do some things. it could come later, but I don't see the need for that personally. Fantasy mundane can be balanced with fantasy magical for at least 10 levels or so IMO.