Kamikaze Midget said:
Which, on a thread started with the idea that a book about drow was unnessecary, merely supports the OP's opinion.
Of course the book is unnecessary. So is Hordes of the Abyss. So is Draconomicon. So are the core rulebooks. Noone really
needs any of these books.
But Wizards seems to think that people will want this book. Enough people that making it will be profitable for them. And they're right with it. Yeah, it's horribly capitalistic, but in its own way it's very democratical: If they sell something well, they keep making stuff just like it. The masses have spoken.
And yeah, it sucks not to like what the majority likes - I know how it is, very well - but it can't be changed unless you brainwash yourself into liking it. Using it as an excuse to rant about drow seems redundand, though. With all the drow bashing going on over the years, it's likely that everything you said has already been said half a dozen times. I think we should have a website devoted to drow-bashing (and generally complaining about them). Make a database about everything. It would be the efficient thing to do!
Monkey Boy said:
The OP's point was that Drow have been covered
Obviously, they can be covered more without the majority not buying the stuff - or at least it was like that the last time, and I guess they'll continue making popular books until one of them sells poorly or their research indicates that it would.
But to get back at your list:
Fane of the Drow was a Fantastic Locations tied to the Underdark minis. Besides, at least 3 of those maps can be used for other underground adventures: Mithral Mines are useful for tons of stuff (that mithral is one valuable metal!), with dwarven adventures being especially fitting, the Tomb of Queen Peregrine isn't tied to drow at all, except in the short "adventure", the Drow Enclave can be used for all sorts of underground complexes. It could be the basement of the Zulkir of Conjurations mansion or something. Only the Fane of Lolth, with its spider motif, strongly suggests drow - and even that you can use for a cult of bebilith-worshipping demon cultists. The adventure that comes with FotD - more like a set of encounters than a proper adventure - isn't exactly the great big drow coverage people would want
Underdark (The FR book) is not only about drow, though it has a lot of drow coverage. There's also info about other races and their homes, and general Underdark info.
Races of Faerûn has a short article about drow - not more than the other races and subraces get. Not nearly as much as dwarves get in Races of Stone or other elves get in Races of the Wild.
City of the Spider Queen is not exactly a sourcebook. It's an adventure. You might mine it for information about Kiaransalee-worshippers, but people who know nothing about drow can hardly get that much of value out of this.
FRCS has the base information about them, even less than Races.
MM IV has some NPCs, and not much more.
Lords of Darkness only covers the Cormanthor Drow, basically only Vhaeraunans. Nothing much about how the more "traditional" drow live in the Night Below.
There are
Dragon Articles for lots of things, but not everyone gets Dragon. That won't be a help for most.
2e material: I agree: Let's not mention that.
If you want Drow information you don't have to look hard.
Still, a book devoted to them, with all the "core" information in one place, sounds like a great idea. A "Races of the Deep" (Drow, Duergar, Svirfneblin) might have sufficed, so the underground subraces (who are usually so much different from their surface cousins) got their coverage, but it seems Wizards thinks that they can pull off a book full of drow information, and sell it, too. And I think they're right.
There are however a number of interesting subjects with great PC and adversarial potential that are being overlooked by WOTC. These have been pointed out by others in the thread.
I don't think that they overlook them. More along the lines "what will sell better? A book about drow or a book about (what the others have pointed out)?" - "I think it is save to say: 'go for the drow!'"
I honestly believe if given the proper treatment and development a WOTC published Fey & or Giant book would be a hit. With sections devoted to playable Fey races and playable Giants it would please both players and DM's.
Noone says that they can't. I for one still hope they do those. And I don't think that DotU counts as a Monstrous book in the line of Draconomicon and Fiendish Codex. They'll keep making those.
* Disclaimer - I don't hate drow. I am a powergamer. The +2 LA doesn't sit well with me.
They can still work. Not as a pure tank fighter, but elves aren't exactly suited to that, either. You have to cater to their strengths and find a way to downplay the weaknesses.
GeoFFields said:
The fact he is a great writer and brought many new people to the hobby doesn't change the fact he ruined drow IMO.
I don't know. I do know that he made them popular, and had a hand in making D&D as popular as it is today.
He might have taken away some myth, but that sort of myth can't survive in the long run, anyway. Sure, in the beginning, you can put in some mysterious evil humanoid race, reveal little about it, and scare the bejeezus out of it. But sooner or later, you'll have to reveal more about them or it starts to ring hollow: "You tell me you know all about demons, know how the verse was created, know hundreds of layers of the Abyss, and all that, but in the 5000 years the drow have raided these realms, noone found out anything about them???"
I think the transition from Great Unknown to Dark Revelation is necessary. I also think that Salvatore did a good job of describing the sick, twisted and evil society the drow live in.
Until his novels and TSR / WotC jumping and the fandom of Drizzt, drow were great adversaries and always caused the players to step back when encountered. Nowadays, it's more lke: Hey! Drow! Let's kill them and take their trinkets!!
I say it's LDS! Lazy Dungeon Master Syndrome!
It should not take much to teach the players to dread the drow. Just because you can read in a book how Drizzt lived in his childhood doesn't mean that the drow are now sunburnt elves. If you go down into the Underdark, you take your lives into your hands. They know the terrain, they need no light, they are accustomed to the way sound travels, they can communicate without sound, they sneak up, execute a brutal strike and are gone before the players know what hit them. The knowledge that in their society, spider-worshipping priestesses rule won't help you at this point.
TarionzCousin said:
Well, at least I'll enjoy the break from the constant rain! (I live in Portland, Oregon, Northwest USA.)
Rain I know, too. We had it for a couple of weeks now. And it wasn't a stranger before that.
Bashing is bad, I agree. It occurs in just about every society, not just gamers.
I still reserve the right to find it sickening.
I always think that gamers should know better. With all the RPG-bashing going on, they should know that behaviour like this is wrong, based on lies instead of facts, and can't help but hurt those who fall victim to it. Instead, they turn around and do it to others. Pitiful.
Drizzt is popular, so there will be plenty of "me, too" type gamers who want to play a similar character.
It's not really Drizzt's fault and it's not limited to drow. Should they stop creating popular novel heroes just because some people can't create, only copy? I don't think so. Instead of saying "I don't like drow fans because of Drizzt clones", they should go and tell those cloners to stop copying and try something they made themselves. But projecting hate is so much more convenient.
P.S. My girlfriend is a gamer, and she is currently running a half-drow wizard in my 3+ year FR campaign. So far, I have no problems with Drow. They can be interesting and provide an intelligent humanoid enemy for PC's. I just ignore whatever bothers me, same as with everything else I DM.
Hear that, people: you can
ignore what you don't like without abandoning the whole! He said it, he apparently does it, so apparently it can work! Just try it, people.
Faraer said:
Still, the largest Eilistraeean surface communities number only in the dozens.
Okay, Eilistraeen drow might still be very few - probably because it's quite a lot to leave behind from your childhood with all the brainwashing sessions by the Spiderkissers: They have to cast aside the misbelief that Lolth is the only drow goddess, their evil ways, the Underdark, the ways of treachery, the belief that females are superior, and so much else. It's a big step from there to dancing around nekkid in the forest.
Vhaeraun, on the other hand, has his share of worshippers on the surface. House Jaelre and the Auzkovyn Clan are mainly Vhaeraunans, and each has thousands of drow.
Plus, I guess Lolth's Silence will have caused many drow to defect to other deities.
