224 page book on Drow yet...

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I expect WOTC to do what makes them money, and it doesnt matter to me whether you applaud it or not. Frankly, neither I, nor WOTC, cares for your singular opinion. They care about the majority of their customers, and they make books they think the majority will pay money for.

The fact that you are in the minority, and have this big dissenting opinion, I am sure you recognize, isnt something they care about. They want to sell books. They want to sell a lot of books. Whether or not they sell 1 book to you is not consequential.

I'd buy an Orcs and Goblins book too, 224 pages or not, by the by. I also like them.
 

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I expect WOTC to do what makes them money, and it doesnt matter to me whether you applaud it or not. Frankly, neither I, nor WOTC, cares for your singular opinion. They care about the majority of their customers, and they make books they think the majority will pay money for.

WotC are almost monolithically powerful within the d20 community. They are in one of the best possible positions to do new things with the game and *still* make a tidy profit. And they do, and it's pretty good when they do. They care about the game as well as their customers. It's sad to me when they neglect this stewardship for re-hashing something already done.

They do care about my opinion, because I am a customer, and I'm not just speaking for myself when I say "being about drow isn't something I value." If they really didn't care, this would've been one of the first 3e releases and we'd be seeing supplements for it as it's own campaign setting by this point. ;)

And they care about making the game the best it can be, which means exploring new areas of design whenever possible. If they do some of that in this book, I'll be happy, since that is valuable to me. If they don't, I will call them on it. Just because I'm in the minority doesn't mean I shouldn't excersize my right to speak out. If you don't care for my posts, no one is making you read them. ;)

The fact that you are in the minority, and have this big dissenting opinion, I am sure you recognize, isnt something they care about. They want to sell books. They want to sell a lot of books. Whether or not they sell 1 book to you is not consequential.

No, but people rarely have unique opinions. The OP and several other posters have expressed sentiments similar to my own, and WotC does want to sell to us, too. They can't afford to fragment their market too much.

And, again, excersising one's right to dissent is almost a moral obligation. If you've got a beef with something, say it! I'm not going to be complacent when people are doing things I don't like, I'm going to challenge them on it, minority or not. I believe everyone should.
 

Kamikaze Midget said:
WotC's dips into the cash bucket to repackage what we've already seen disappoint me (Spell Compendium). Unless this book does something amazingly new with Drow (which it can still do, I still have faith!), it will probably dissapoint me.
OK. So let me get this straight. You only know that this will be a 224 page hardcover full colour book focused on Drow, from WotC, coming out around the announced time, and this eventuality bothers you because: a) it has, to your way of thinking, too narrow a focus; and b) it *might* (and, let it be said, equally might not) consist largely - or entirely - of reprinted and/or reworded and/or restatted material.

As that stands, 'b' applies as well to hm. . . the MM for starters. And many more. And 'a' could apply to the Draconomicon, for example.

Soooo. . . is there anything I'm missing here?


Buy it and enjoy it, but don't expect me to stand up and applaud WotC for giving us the same stuff with new artwork. Indeed, you can reliably expect me to say they should've spent their time and effort on something that would add more to the game. If DotU takes this in a new direction (drow shadow magic? A fully-detailed enclave of drow a la Saltmarsh? Could work...), I'll get on the bandwagon, and until then, the book has not demonstrated any value to me. Because I don't place value on the simple fact that there are drow in something.
Um. Right. So, who exactly was expecting you to "stand up and applaud WotC for giving us the same stuff with new artwork" in the first place. . . ? And really, how can a book you know practically nothing about demonstrate any value to you? That's hilarious. :lol:

And, for that matter, it does seem that you "place value on the simple fact that there are drow in something". . . negative value, yes. But still. ;)
 


Olgar Shiverstone said:
While a 224-page book devoted to drow is a little lame, it doesn't make me retch.

But where's the love for giants? or fey? or oozes?

I agree. I'd love to see some other monster books.

Where did you see the information would be Greyhawk related? Maybe some updated Vault of the Drow material.

Mike
 

I know DotU will sell, only because it has the darn word "DROW" on it despite so many people being bored of them.

BUT

I agree about the fact that Drow are overdone, and they could've devoted their money and time to exploring and making "sexy" the Fey creatures of D&D or even the Giants of D&D. Look how well-made and well-sold Draconomicon is and even Lords of Madness. 'Course, they screwed up with Libris Mortis but it was still decent.

What I find really really odd is how short and miniscule FCI and FCII are when they are CLEARLY just as cool (if not cooler) and more diversified than Drow. I mean, exactly how many people run a campaign without demons or devils or both? Very few, I'm sure. But yet, they get such short attention by WotC and Drow, once again, receive all the good chunks of their budget...

It's sad really. I used to see Drow as one of those creatures people had enough info to tailor them however they would like to their games and now they've received so much attention they don't really have much of an identity anymore.
 

My first experience with drow was at the gaming table AND in front of the computer (Eye of the Beholder I). They've always been mysterious, sleek, stealthy, ruthless, and utterly cool.

I read the RAS novels, and a certain magic was dispelled. They're not bad books, but I didn't quite buy into Menzoberanzan, and to me, Drizzt is a dark-skinned moon elf taking full advantage of the scimitar's superior threat range. ;)

I'm excited to see a non-FR take on drow, but really, what more do I need to know about drow elves? :confused:. At least it's not another dragon-based book. I'll definitely page through it in great eagerness. That might be all I do, as I already own piles of drow information.

And I do understand when people (oftentimes it's the experienced gamers with years under their belts) feel miffed about "yet another ______ book". Because of RAS, drow are a huge cash crop, and yes WotC will squeeze as much as they can out of them in the interest of money rather than good, useful, enriching products that focus on untapped areas. And it's not just drow. It's been done with dragons, demons, and devils as well.

And why not? They're D&D staples.

The fact that 4E is looming around the corner means that in a few years there will be yet another drow book, and Drow of the Underdark, Queen of the Demonweb Pits, Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, Underdark, and City of the Spider Queen will be obsolete not because the data requires updating, but because the gaming language is out-dated.

A book dealing with giants could be cool. Focusing on fey could also be cool. Oozes? What's there to say about them? They have no society to compare to our own. They jiggle. ;) The Dragon/Dungeon Incursion info was great, and thank Paizo for tapping a rare resource in the githyanki/githzerai.

Tap more new veins, please. Somebody. Anybody!
 

OK. So let me get this straight. You only know that this will be a 224 page hardcover full colour book focused on Drow, from WotC, coming out around the announced time, and this eventuality bothers you because: a) it has, to your way of thinking, too narrow a focus; and b) it *might* (and, let it be said, equally might not) consist largely - or entirely - of reprinted and/or reworded and/or restatted material.

As that stands, 'b' applies as well to hm. . . the MM for starters. And many more. And 'a' could apply to the Draconomicon, for example.

Soooo. . . is there anything I'm missing here?

Yeah, you are. Most notably, The word "and." A narrow focus on something brand new or fairly unexplored could be pretty amazing. Check out what Lords of Madness did with one species that didn't really have much about them before they were covered there, and one that was brand new for an example of that. Or what the Tome of Battle did -- a narrow focus on a new mechanic that made it cool. Even something that's just a little rare, such as the Fey or Giants, could be awesome, because everyone knows they're around, but few people see a reason to use them.

And you're missing the fact that dragons are quite a varied monster. Different types, subtypes, alignments, energies, appearances, goals, motivations, CR's....compared to drow, dragons are exceedingly diverse. Drow have one alignment, one CR, one appearance, one subtype, one type. Drow are drow. Dragons are red dragons and copper dragons and wyverns and faerie dragons and abyssal drakes and landwyrms. It would be a hard case to argue that dragons are a narrow focus.

You're also missing the fact that the MM is one of the core rulebooks of a new edition, and is thus required to update the rules. I'm not sure what drow-specific rules are so important in older editions that they need an update now that they haven't had one for six and a half years. I still had a problem with the Spell Compendium because it is simply repackaged and slightly updated material, rather than something new, making it a fairly broad focus with existing or recent material that wasn't key to the game anyway.

That said, something like the Fiendish Codexies get something of a pass because in the case of FCI, there was a wealth of new information on a very broad range of creatures. FCII promises to be slightly less in that regard, it appears, but it's still good info on a broad range of threats, from CR1-20, from fire-subtype to cold-subtype, with spell-like abilities and an alien culture that didn't have several novel's worth of information to accompany it.

But you're broadly right. The drow are a narrow focus that have been well-covered already. A new coverage or a broader focus would definately make me less hostile toward the title.

Um. Right. So, who exactly was expecting you to "stand up and applaud WotC for giving us the same stuff with new artwork" in the first place. . . ? And really, how can a book you know practically nothing about demonstrate any value to you? That's hilarious.

What I do know about it can demonstrate value to me. For instance, I know virtually nothing about Dungeonscape, the upcoming title that focuses on dungeon environments. Yet it demonstrates value to me by being about something that is key to many people's games (not just my own!) that has recieved little new work since 3e came out. Now, that could go wrong...it could just update the Book of Challenges, for instance. ;) But it has show that it has value for me by being about a narrow focus that has not been the subject of much recent conversation. It's new and exciting!

Or, take the Magic Item Compendium, which I'm actually kind of excited about. There's a new magic item format that can add a lot of interesting details to that which has already been mentioned, and there's possibility for new treasure charts and the like so that rolling them up won't be hard. Magic items were once prolific, but aren't really, anymore. They're also used in probably 100% of the D&D games in existence in some form or another.

But drow have no value to me.

And, for that matter, it does seem that you "place value on the simple fact that there are drow in something". . . negative value, yes. But still.

No, it's a null value. A negative value would suggest I want to stop people who want it from buying it, to actively hinder it's success, and I really don't. Take it and have fun. Just like with the Spell Compendium.

I do, however, place a negative value on a lack of new creative energy. Which the Spell Compendium definately displays, and a book on drow certainly threatens to display.
 
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. . .

. . .

No, never mind. There are times when it is better to refrain, and I'm convinced this is one of them.

Peace KM, out.
 

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