26th level rogue vs. Smiley McFirePants

[Puggins]

OK, so he uses his 9th level Crimson Edge "per encounter" attack one round for 20 damage on a miss, and the next round he does his 26th level Ultraman Tumble Sneak FireBlade "per encounter" attack for 60 damage and Combat Advantage on a hit the next round.

Crimson Edge is a Daily attack. I expect higher Daily powers to be a lot more impressive, but we're talking about the premiere heroic tier power for rogues, so it's not trivial.

EDIT: And this is just one of four PCs dealing the smackdown.

One of two. The Pit Fiend is a challenge for two characters, being an elite monster. Two Pit Fiends will fight a party of four, along with the 10+ summoned level 21+ devils they bring to the table. Given their teleport ability and all their minions, I'd say ganging up on a single one is going to be challenging- but then again, we are talking about 26th level characters- who knows?

Any which way, the rogue is a striker, and his damage output isn't eclipsing the pit fiends ability to survive by any stretch.

 

[catsclaw227]

It initially didn't look very powerful? That's because people looked at it through the eyes of 3e 9th level spells vs it, as opposed to 4e characters not getting iterative attacks or dealing 2000 damage whenever they want to nova.

Exactly.

I wondered why there was so much hub-bub about how horribly nerfed and weak the new Pit Fiend was. Context, people, context!

 

[gtJormungand]

I also have a suspicion based on skimming thru SWSE that certain classes get "freebie" increases to primary stats every so often, so the rogue's Dex may very well be higher than what we're using for calculations.

Star Wars Saga Edition doesn't give any freebie stat increases at all. Instead, you get 2 stat bumps to different stats every four levels.

As far as that goes, though, we don't really know what the ability score ranges are going to be in 4e or how they increase.

 

[catsclaw227]

Crimson Edge is a Daily attack. I expect higher Daily powers to be a lot more impressive, but we're talking about the premiere heroic tier power for rogues, so it's not trivial.

Yes, I just read that as you were posting. My bad. But still, we need to keep it in context. We also don't know that it's the premier heroic tier power for rogues. And I would imagine that top-shelf heroic characters would pee pee their diapers at the mere sight of a pit fiend, so comparing a per day power of heroic tier to how it would affect a pit fiend might not be relevant (note: I said MIGHT not be).

One of two. The Pit Fiend is a challenge for two characters, being an elite monster. Two Pit Fiends will fight a party of four, along with the 10+ summoned level 21+ devils they bring to the table. Given their teleport ability and all their minions, I'd say ganging up on a single one is going to be challenging- but then again, we are talking about 26th level characters- who knows?

Any which way, the rogue is a striker, and his damage output isn't eclipsing the pit fiends ability to survive by any stretch.

Yes, that's true. But as you said, if the PCs gang up on one of them, it could go down fairly quickly. No need to split the attacks if not necessary. Better to drop one fast, than let them both bash away on you.

On a side note, if a 4e pit fiend gets killed, do his summoned minions vanish or fight until death?

 

[catsclaw227]

<tangent>

If I was an imaginary pit fiend and my DM named me Smiley McFirePants, I'd reach through my Monster Manual and wring his neck.

Because I would want myself to be aligned with Daire Donn, High King of the Great World. An' bein' given an Irish surname would raise me hackles sometin' fierce.

EDIT: wow, that was totally irrelevant and nonsensical. darn coffee.

 

[fafhrd]

Binding Smite
Paladin 27
Encounter • Weapon
Standard Action
Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 2x[W] + Wis damage and target cannot gain line of effect to anyone but you until the end of your next turn.

Nearly level appropriate power for comparison purposes. Hehe, no irresistible command.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Let's not forget that leaders may give their allies bonuses to hit, and some classes (like warlocks) might give their enemies penalties to AC and defenses.

 

[helium3]

Nearly level appropriate power for comparison purposes. Hehe, no irresistible command.

Speaking of which, a Paladin that uses that ability becomes the Pit Piend's only target for Irresistible Command.

 

[fafhrd]

Ranged Irresistible Command (minor 1/round; at-will) • Charm, Fire
Range 10; affects one allied devil of lower level than the pit fiend; the target immediately slides up to 5 squares and explodes, dealing 2d10+5 fire damage to all creatures in a close burst 2. The exploding devil is destroyed.

Right. So no irresistible command. Pretty sweet. Although, it also means the paladin is likely going to experience one really painful round.

 

[Ashardalon]

Speaking of which, a Paladin that uses that ability becomes the Pit Piend's only target for Irresistible Command.

I'd say a paladin using that power against the pit fiend is, in all likelyhood, not a devil of lower level allied with the pit fiend. In fact, the paladin would probably fail all three criteria.