D&D 3E/3.5 2nd ed. Skills & Powers Stats for 3.5

[Raflar]

I was just wondering if anyone had the old 2nd edition Player's Options books. Specifically Skills & Powers (I think). I'm looking for the options that broke down the 6 attributes (str, dex, con, int, wis, chr) into 12.

My group is looking into house ruling some things and we want a more detailed reflection of our characters. (For example, I have a very fat halfing wizard with a 16 Con, I think he would have a high resistance to infection and disease but very low stamina)

Can anyone list what the 6 attributes break down to?

Thanks.

 

[der_kluge]

Str - Muscle and Stamina
Dex - Aim and Balance
Con - Health and Fitness
Int - Reason and Knowledge
Wis - Intuition and Willpower
Cha - Leadership and Appearance

 

[Gnome]

Edit: Looks like I was too slow!

I don't have it in front of me, but I found a S&P character sheet on the web. Here are the substats:

STR: Stanima, Muscle
DEX: Aim, Balance
CON: Health, Fitness
INT: Reason, Knowledge
WIS: Intuition, Willpower
CHA: Leadership, Appearance

HTH

 

[Terath Ninir]

I used those rules. I was never quite happy with them. It's a neat idea, but I could never tinker it into working well in practice.

 

[Raflar]

My group is going to really bend the rules a bit. We're going to have to tweak all the skills now to reflect the attribute changes. Will probably add a few new skills too, or break a couple down into multiples.... I'll post what we come up with for some input from the board.

Actually if anyone has suggestions on how to break down the skills or new skills the make all the attributes useful, I'd more than welcome them.

 

[Terath Ninir]

My group is going to really bend the rules a bit. We're going to have to tweak all the skills now to reflect the attribute changes. Will probably add a few new skills too, or break a couple down into multiples.... I'll post what we come up with for some input from the board.

Actually if anyone has suggestions on how to break down the skills or new skills the make all the attributes useful, I'd more than welcome them.

Cool. If you get it to work, I'd love to see it.

edit: Ah, I see you edited between when I hit Quick Reply and when I posted. I'll think about it and see if I can come up with anything. I wasn't really satisfied the last time through, though...

 

[TerraDave]

The most broken thing about this was Muscle...be sure to enforce the encumbrance rules for Stamina...

and I am curious to see how you breakdown skills, saves, and other bonuses

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Heh. The only part of Skills & Powers that I never used.

 

[Raflar]

Sub Attributes Optional Rules (Taken from the 2nd ed. Skills & Powers Optional Rules)

STRENGTH
(Muscle)
• Damage Bonus
• Max Press
• Strength Checks (ie: open doors)
• Jump Skill

(Stamina)
• Swim Skill
• Endurance Checks (ie: running)

DEXTERITY
(Aim)
• To Hit Bonus (both melee & range)
• Sleight of Hand Skill
• Use Rope Skill
• Precision Craft/Profession (ie: gemcutting, tailor)

(Agility)
• Initiative Modifier
• Reflex Save
• Balance
• Escape Artist
• Ride
• Sneak (we encompass Hide & Move Silently in one skill)

CONSTITUTION
(Health)
• Hit Points (Wounds)
• Fortitude Save

(Fitness)
• Hit Points (Vitality Mod)
• Climb Skill
• Tumble Skill
• Holding your breath

INTELLIGENCE
(Reason)
• Arcane Spells (DC, Bonus Spells)
• Appraise Skill
• Forgery Skill
• Search Skill
• Decipher Script Skill
• Disable Device Skill
• Craft Skill (ie: carpentry, smithing, alchemy)

(Knowledge)
• All Knowledge Skills (separately)
• Profession Skill*
• Spellcraft Skill

WISDOM
(Intuition)
• Divine Spells (DC, Bonus Spells)
• Heal Skill
• Observe Skill (combined Listen & Spot)
• Sense Motive Skill
• Survival Skill
• Use Magic/Psionic Device Skill

(Willpower)
• Will Save
• Concentration Skill

CHARISMA
(Leadership)
• Bluff Skill
• Diplomacy Skill
• Handle Animal Skill
• Intimidate Skill (is now apposed by Will save: DC=check)
• Perform Skill (Oratory)

(Appearance)
• Disguise Skill
• Gather Information Skill
• Perform Skill (Dance, Music)

Some notes: We changed the base check on several skills after some debate, some made sense (like Concentration being more Willpower to complete the task than a health issue) and some we broke down into several categories. (Perform and Craft)

We are going to playtest this for a bit and see if it’s balanced. There are probably some people who will argue our choices (like using Aim for ALL to Hit Bonuses) but our argument was ‘hitting is not damaging’

I should also mention that we play “Wounds & Vitality” and are thinking of using “Armour as DR”, but we’ll try this first for a few sessions.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome as this is still a rough draft.

 

[Al]

The key problem was that no matter how one tried to divide it, there almost always seemed to be a "better" sub-ability. Everyone took Fitness (which gave bonus HPs) over Health (um...system shock rolls?), and Muscle (hit and damage) over Stamina (encumbrance). I see exactly the same thing being replicated in any new system, though it would not be quite as bad due to the lack of a sudden exponential gain after 18 (18 Strength = +1 hit, +2 damage; 19 Strength = +3 hit, +6 damage!). Raflar seems to have the most towards a balanced system, including the movement of concepts (e.g. melee to-hit bonus) into different abilities, but even this cannot make a "fair" system. Which wizard, for example, would prioritise an extra +1 in Knowledge (arcana) over a +1 for all his DCs?