D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Arcane Archer -- Nifft's Version!

[AdvntrGuy]

Pretty cool ideas for the class. An idea lending power to the imbue ability popped into my head while reading. I may have missed it, but has there been any thought given to the idea that when attacking with an imbued arrow, the AC to hit for the arrow is normal, but the AC for the spell to go off is a touch attack? Seems like this might be helpful.

What do you guys think?

 

[Nifft]

when attacking with an imbued arrow, the AC to hit for the arrow is normal, but the AC for the spell to go off is a touch attack? Seems like this might be helpful.

Turning a melee Touch attack into a ranged Touch attack is too powerful, especially given the great range of a bow. Turning a melee Touch attack into a regular ranged attack is still pretty darn powerful.

-- N

 

[SylverFlame]

That's a damned interesting variant you have there.

Had you considered a class ability that could give an alignment property to the arrow? In other words, as an extension of Imbue Arrow (Magic) it would increase later to Imbue Arrow (Alignment) and the arrow would be treated as Good (or whatever the character's alignment is) for the purpose of overcoming DR?

I'm with Zad here. Why not put an ability onto the arcane archer that makes their bow cut DR like a monk. They gain the ability passively and attribute it to a bow. For this I'd cut the progression of + bonuses, and I'd only put in three or four DR cutters, like magic, alignment (would mesh with AA's alignment) and something else. I guess that makes three... so then it only needs three. That keeps the AA as a fighting power without heaping on the BAB increases and not just limiting them to cutting DR/magic.

 

[Tywyll]

Arcane Strike

Arcane Shot I (Su): As a free action, the Arcane Archer may expend a prepared spell and focus its energy into one of her arrows. If the arrow strikes, it deals +1d4/spell level damage. The spell is expended even if the arrow misses

There is a feat in Dragon 310 that allows someone to expend, as a free action, a spell and gain a +2 bonus to hit and +1d6 damage, both are per level (3rd level spell=+6 to hit and +3d6 damage). You can't get a bonus to hit greater then your Bab fromt he feat though.

If I'm buring my Scorching rays and what not, I would want that kind of extra bonus.

As for the build, I like it. I think some of the suggestions are good though, and I don't agree that giving them a half level caster build is useless... sure, their spells won't hurt many enemies at the highend, but they will buff and protect our AA just fine. Also, I see the AA as more of a paladin/ranger comparison... a fighter with a little bit of magic, rather then a spell caster par excellance.

 

[seasong]

What I like best about this PrC is that it can be so very easily tweaked for a bladesinger class. Just replace "bow" with "sword", and it works out just fine.

For that matter, swap out "hammer" and replace the arcane with divine, and this would make a pretty flavorful dwarven 'hammer of X god' .

 

[Nifft]

Updated and More Betterer!

That Feat from Dragon would be a bit unbalanced for the ArcArch -- remember that the boost in Attack is balanced by the wizard's lame BAB, while the ArcArch has a primo BAB.

Anyway, I've re-worked the Imbue Arrows power. Now, you can choose Alignment Trait (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic) for a basic Effect, and then the higher-level Enhance Effect class feature lets you upgrade them to Holy, Unholy, Anarchic, or Axiomatic -- along with making such powers as Flaming Burst contingent upon already having the Flaming effect.

So, I think it's more organic and consistant, and will please Zad (who writes one of my favorite Story Hours ).

To preserve the total enhancement bonus of the ArcArch, I've also added a second "Enhance Effect" at 10th level.

Seasong: IMHO, this class would be okay for a Bladesinger, but I'd require Bard spellcasting, and give advancement in Bard spellcasting instead of Wizard or Sorcerer. The "Arcane Shot" would be better for a Bard, since they're low on direct-damage spells, but they'd also be allowed to cast spells in light armor -- a key prereq for the Bladesinger IMHO, who's supposed to have shiny magic Elven Chain in pretty colors. Also, I'd probably allow some sort of Bard Song advancement, since Bard's spellcasting advancement is weaker than Wiz or Sorc spellcasting.

As to Dwarven Clerical Hammer of God PrC, you'd have to change the name of "Arcane Shot" to "Smite Conversion". Also, add some sort of ritual to attune your chosen hammer (like Monte Cook's Mage Blade class).


Zad: I'll bet Kayleigh wouldn't mind a bow with Bane(Undead), Bane (Evil Outsiders), Holy and Ghost Touch effects.

-- N

 

[FrankTrollman]

That Feat from Dragon would be a bit unbalanced for the ArcArch -- remember that the boost in Attack is balanced by the wizard's lame BAB, while the ArcArch has a primo BAB.

Not quite.

He's at least 1 level behind in BAB and 1 level behind in fighting abilities than is an Order of the Bow Initiate.

And he's paying an ability for Arcane Shot as well.

So if he doesn't use Arcane Shot, he's a minimum of 2 levels worth of abilities and a BAB in the hole.

However, if he does use Arcane Shot he's out his precious spellcasting - meaning that using Arcane Shot had better be worth those 2 levels worth of special abilities and a BAB.

So you are giving up at least two things such as "Improved Combat Style", "Power Shot", or "Ranged Sneak Attack +1d6" and an entire BAB to get this ability. It had better be worth it.

-Frank

 

[Nifft]

He's at least 1 level behind in BAB and 1 level behind in fighting abilities than is an Order of the Bow Initiate.

If you're crazy enough to allow OoBI in your game, that's really not my problem. I don't feel any compulsion to make my PrCs "measure up" to clearly unbalanced Splatbook nonsense.

"Ranged Power Attack"? Don't waste my time.

-- N

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

This is really an excellent revision to the Arcane Archer prestige class.

WRT Frank's contention that the 1/2 caster level is useless, he's flat out wrong because he's making the wrong comparison. If you compare the Ftr 8/Wiz 2/Arcane Archer 10 to the Fighter 20 (the proper comparison since the class's prerequisites and abilities are clearly geared towards a character who is primarily a fighter with some integrated magic rather than a wizard who uses magic to fight (like the Eldritch Knight)), it doesn't look nearly so bad.

-1 BAB, -26 hp, -6 feats for an extra strong save, +20 skill points on a good skill list, a boatload of special abilities, and seven spellcasting levels--(which are probably slightly more useful than paladin or ranger spellcasting ability due to the dramatically more diverse spell list).

Since this is an archer class, the hit points aren't as much of a loss as they would be to a melee character. I'd say that the extra strong save probably offsets the loss. The point of BAB is not incredibly significant either. (IME, a character can afford to lose a point or two of BAB and still be able to perform any of the roles that a single-classed fighter would perform without much of any trouble). And I'll assume that the special abilities make up for the feats that the fighter would get (really, they probably more than make up for it since the only ones an archer is likely to care about are Improved Precise Shot, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization so the extra six feats the fighter 20 gets suffer from an extreme case of diminishing returns).

Which leaves the arcane archer seven levels of spellcasting in the black. And the archer should be able to do a fair amount with those levels (there are quite a few 1st-4th level spells which are useful at high levels and don't suffer from reduced caster level--Fly, Blink, Slow (in the dispelling haste function), Rope Trick, Greater Invisibility, Solid Fog, See Invisibility, etc).

My only complaint is that Imbue Arrows (Magic) is really a waste of an ability since arrows fired from magic bows are considered magic already and any character able to take the prestige class ought to have a magic bow. It's not a really big deal since it has flavor and fits the progression of abilities but it would be nice to either give that ability more oomph or add another ability at level 1.

 

[FrankTrollman]

If you compare the Ftr 8/Wiz 2/Arcane Archer 10 to the Fighter 20 (the proper comparison since the class's prerequisites and abilities are clearly geared towards a character who is primarily a fighter with some integrated magic rather than a wizard who uses magic to fight (like the Eldritch Knight)), it doesn't look nearly so bad.

But if you compare flotsam that washes up on the beach to a 20th level Fighter it doesn't look so bad either.

Single Classed Fighters are severely underpowered - and making direct comparisons between them and absolutely anything else is pointless unless you are simply making note of the fact that SC Fighters "R teh suk."

If the best thing you can say about your class is that it doesn't look all that bad when compared against a Single Classed Fighter - your class probably needs a lot of work. After all, the Single Classed Fighter is wildly underpowered compared to the Single Classed Wizard, Sorcerer, Cleric, Druid, Rogue, or even Bard. Single Classed Warriors get punched in the balls in D&D hard.

A character who, after massively multiclassing, is still not superior to one of the worst possible builds in D&D is not writing themselves a good reccomendation.

-Frank