[3.5] Bard Spell list Changes Summary

[yangnome]

I'm disapointed that they took away curse...mainly because I had a bard who was a gypsy and it fit in really well with his character cocept. Granted, I don't play him anymore, butI just thought that was a bardish-type ability...especially if someone interrupted your performance in the tavern.

 

[Dthamilaye]

.

*Cough* I thought bard and virtuoso sucketh so badly in 3.0 that when one of my players took this route, I ruled that virtuoso levels were counted just as bard levels, ie, he got bardic knowledge and such.
Additionally, I gave the virtuoso 1 extra 'song' per level. The ones she has initially are totally useless. So I have him things like sleep(every round of singing), expeditious retreat, emotion, control winds, minor globe of invulnerability, spell resistance, storm of vengeance. They all took different amounts of bardic song uses and such.

I also changed some bad songs, such as facinate can be done in a middle of a fight, if nobody is threatening the guy facinated. Countersong can be used reactively.

Still, the bard/virtuoso is mostly information gatherer in the group, having few levels of divine oracle.

With bought adventurers, mostly dungeoneering and guys like shade/druid, half-dragon/planar champion, feryi/sorc/inc/acm and half-celestial/rogue, the bard/virtuoso seems bit underpowered.
Even if the bard is a song dragon as a race.

 

[krunchyfrogg]

The Emotion split really sucks, but I can deal with it.

My first 3.5 character is definitely going to be an elven or half-elven bard, going for Arcane Archer. I'm really looking forward to this!

 

[heimdall]

I'm not liking the emotion song drop at all. Given that my bard is a relatively weak fighter compared to the fighters and clerics in the group, I've had to use emotion to save my neck (and the wizard's) when the baddies broke through. With so few known spells, breaking up emotion hurts a lot.

As for sustaining song and the virtuoso class, there's a need for it in my group. The DM has a house rule that says to determine whether a character is dead or dying requires a full round spot check. That means at least two rounds to determine if a character is dying and/or dead and getting in position to heal. In the middle of battle, especially in open spaces, that song can mean all the difference between keeping a character within reach of life or getting ready to cough up the gold for True Res spell when we get back to civilization. I have a single level in virtuoso because of an encounter where we lost a member of the party. Successfully disengaging meant costly AoO that we couldn't afford to take.

 

[tarchon]

As for sustaining song and the virtuoso class, there's a need for it in my group. The DM has a house rule that says to determine whether a character is dead or dying requires a full round spot check. That means at least two rounds to determine if a character is dying and/or dead and getting in position to heal. In the middle of battle, especially in open spaces, that song can mean all the difference between keeping a character within reach of life or getting ready to cough up the gold for True Res spell when we get back to civilization. I have a single level in virtuoso because of an encounter where we lost a member of the party. Successfully disengaging meant costly AoO that we couldn't afford to take.

Like we were saying, just open up an Inspire Greatness. The target will probably even come to long enough to try to help himself out. Unlike Sustaining Song, IG also lingers after you stop, so when you try to cast Cure Light on him, he doesn't start dying again.

 

[Destil]

Re: Bardic changes

"And" instead of "or" makes a huge difference. Now my bard can have a shortbow and shortsword to go with her longsword.

What, no one else managed to convince their DM it was inclusive or?

 

[heimdall]

Like we were saying, just open up an Inspire Greatness. The target will probably even come to long enough to try to help himself out. Unlike Sustaining Song, IG also lingers after you stop, so when you try to cast Cure Light on him, he doesn't start dying again.

Two complications:
(1) Individual is at -9 when you start. By the time the effect would kick in, he's bit it. With Sustaining Song, if it looks like the combat is particularly brutal, I can start Sustaining Song up and maintain it, so if anyone drops, I don't have to worry about targetting. Also, if two people were to drop in the same round (which has happened), you have no idea who is the worse off. You pick the wrong one, and the one is at -8, they die. Sustaining Song eliminates this concern.

(2) 30' range limitation on Inspire Greatness, one Sustaining Song does not have. In a particularly open area, this can be all she wrote. The encounter we lost a party member in was 120' x 60' with combat throughout the entire area.

 

[Darklone]

ACK!

They took MESSAGE out???????

No tactical approach anymore directed by the bard? Damn.

Edit: Ah, 0th level spell... Phew

 

[Dark Dragon]

I'm glad that the sixth level spell Control Weather is gone. Could never figure how to roleplay casting that spell. (Do a raindance? )

:snip:

Well, the bard in the Asterix comics can change weather simply by singing some horrid song

 

[tarchon]

Two complications:

Oh, it's true they don't totally overlap, but the likelihood of running into cases where one works but not the other is small. It's basically an ability that you'll probably only need once, if ever, and to me that's a really strange choice for a class special ability, like getting +2 on Ref saves for dodging falling pianos.