D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Bards multiclassing with Wizards and Sorcerers ??? Please HELP !!!

[Hackenslash]

Hello All,

Having read through some parts of the new 3.5 Edition PHB, I have noted that the new Bard can now cast his group of Arcane Spells whilst still wearing Light Armor, eg. a Mithril Chain Shirt, if this is the case, then would it be possible for a multi classed Bard/Sorcerer or Bard/Wizard to cast his/her extra(Wiz./Sorc.) magic spells, provided they were from the same schools and types etc... as on the Bard spell list, in addition to the Bardic Spells. In other words does the character cast all his spell slots(from both classes) while still wearing the light armor or would he only be able to cast his Bardic Spells ???

I would be tempted to rule that the only spells the multiclassed character would be able to use from his other classes, and still cast in light armor, would be the ones from the Bardic Spell Lists. For example, if the Bard/Wizard had access to the Charm Person Spell, then they could effectively cast that spell from either a Bardic Spell slot or a Wizard Spell Slot, and still wear the light armor. However if the character came accross a FireBall Spell then that could only be effectively cast(ie. with no arcane spell failure) if the character decidied to not wear his/her armor that day.

What do all you ENWorlders think ? Have I maybe missed some ruling for this ? OR. Am I making this too complicated ? Any Suggestions and/or advice would be very much appreciated.

Cheers All.......ZAL.

 

[Macbrea]

Why would abilities from one class allow you to do stuff in another class. This doesn't appear to be an issue if the character is say.... Wizard/cleric in full plate. You would not even question giving the wizard penaties for casting wizard spells in full platemail.

 

[Plane Sailing]

The rules are quite specific, that the bard only gets no arcane failure chance when casting Bardic spells in no armour.

A multiclass wizard/bard would still have the normal failure chance for their wizard spells.

 

[Hackenslash]

Hmm...Not sure that you are correct there !!!

The rules are quite specific, that the bard only gets no arcane failure chance when casting Bardic spells in no armour.

A multiclass wizard/bard would still have the normal failure chance for their wizard spells.

Forgetting Multi Classing for a minute coz I do not have my 3.5 PH with me as I am at work, but if memory serves, if you play the new Bard you can cast spells from the Bardic Spell list in Light Armor. Correct ???

Now I don't have a problem with any of the analogys stated in this post. All I was tring to do is clarify a point raised by a future player in my up coming campaign. I could not figure out if the Arcane Spells in the Bard spell list were usable via the Spell Lists of a multi classed Wizard/Bard or Sorcerer/Bard and if they could still wear the armor and get no spell failure as a Bard does when he is casting his Bardic Spells. The reason for this is that a lot of the spells on the Bard spell list could appear on the Sorcerer or Wizard list too. So that was why I was wondering if they could still be cast with the light armor on(no spell failure) as they are essentially the same spells. As I put in the example above on my first post, a Bard will have his own spells slots from his Bardic List and if he multi classes into a Sorcerer for instance, he will get those spell slots too. Now if he then chooses the same spells as he has in his Bardic list, Why can't they be cast with no spell failure, if he is wearing his light armor ? That was essentially my question. Sorry if this has been confusing but I am only tring to get the rules straight ! Thanks again for any suggestions or advice. Cheers All

 

[nsruf]

I suppose a Bardic spell is a spell cast with a bardic spell slot. So even if there is an overlap in the list, it still depends on which class actually contributes the power for the spell,

 

[The Souljourner]

I think it's pretty obvious that a Bard/Wizard casting a Bard spell is a different thing from a Bard/Wizard casting a Wizard spell, regardless of whether it's on the Bard list or not.

If you cast using a Wizard slot you use your intelligence modifier to determine the DC, you use your Wizard level to determine the caster level, and you cast it as if you had absolutely no bard levels whatsoever. A wizard has spell failure in light armor, so a wizard/bard has spell failure in light armor when casting spells using his wizard levels. Even if it's the exact same spell, he's casting it *a different way*.

-The Souljourner

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Yep.

Bard spell slots: No ASF.

Wizard/Sorcerer slots: ASF.

Justify it however you like (different stat, for example). Personally, I like the "Bard spells all have verbal components" justification, since it indicates that the spells are different in some manner, even if the names and effects are the same (though I'd have to look to see if there are any bard spells that normally wouldn't have V components for Wiz/Sor -- I doubt it).

 

[Hackenslash]

Thanks for the clarification....

Thanks to Olgar Shiverstone and The Souljourner for their explanations on multiclassing Bards. I must have missed something in the rules. Cheers !!

 

[totoro]

Re: Thanks for the clarification....

Thanks to Olgar Shiverstone and The Souljourner for their explanations on multiclassing Bards. I must have missed something in the rules. Cheers !!

I think you gave up too quickly. You are on to something there. Arcane spell scrolls are usable if a spell is on your spell list. A bard can pick up a charm person scroll written by a wizard or a sorcerer and cast from it as easily as if it were written by a bard. While I agree with Olga and the Souljourner about the rules, it would not be bad to allow a bard/wizard to cast wizard spells while wearing armor as long as the spells appear on the bard spell list. Clearly, this would be a house rule designed to make your player happy. I think it is reasonably clear that it is also not an overly powerful ability, anyway.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Re: Re: Thanks for the clarification....

I think you gave up too quickly. You are on to something there. Arcane spell scrolls are usable if a spell is on your spell list. A bard can pick up a charm person scroll written by a wizard or a sorcerer and cast from it as easily as if it were written by a bard. While I agree with Olga and the Souljourner about the rules, it would not be bad to allow a bard/wizard to cast wizard spells while wearing armor as long as the spells appear on the bard spell list. Clearly, this would be a house rule designed to make your player happy. I think it is reasonably clear that it is also not an overly powerful ability, anyway.

If it's a scroll on the bard's spell list, cast it as a bard -- arcane scrolls are arcane scrolls.

I'd only keep up with the minutae on memorized spells (spell slots).