D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Can a Bbn/Drd wield a glaive while wildshaped as a dire ape?

[Caliban]

Last month, Andy Collins clarified on his messageboards that, while wildshaped, a druid retains the use of any magic items that can be used by his new form (I.E., a wolf can wear a necklace), and that DMs should give players wide latitude when deciding what can and can't be used by a new form.

My barbarian/druid wields a +1 adamantine glaive. If he turns into a dire ape, would the glaive therefore remain when he changes, since in dire ape form he has hands and could continue to wield it? Also, dire apes are Large size. Would the glaive therefore become a Large size weapon if he's holding it when he wildshapes into an ape? If not, what happens to it? Remains the same size, imposing penalties for using a weapon not of your size category? Melds into your form even though you have hands?

Caveat: I know that it's likely no one on this forum has a clue what the rule would be, but I am curious to read your opinions.

Hope it works out in my favor, I wanna be the glaive-wielding raging barbarian dire ape with Combat Reflexes and a 15-foot zone of control!

While I don't believe the glaive would be absorbed, given the Dire Ape's lack of opposable thumbs, I would be giving you a hefty penalty and a chance to drop the glaive on every strike.

If you want to wield it without penalties, get the "opposable" enhancement from MotW.

 

[ForceUser]

Mind you, I appreciate the house-rule suggestions, but what I am looking for is cold, hard fact one way or the other so I'll know how to focus my character's growth.

• From alter self: any [items] that you could wear in either form or carry in a body part common to both forms at the time of reversion are still held in the same way. Any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form.
• From shapechage: Parts of your body or pieces of equipment that are separated from you do not revert to their original forms.

Taken together, these excerpts of text could be interpreted to mean that, when wild shaping to a dire ape and wielding a two-handed weapon, the weapon grows such that it is also two-handed weapon in the new form - "held in the same way." If the druid later drops the weapon while still in ape form, it reverts to its normal size.

And I thought apes, being primates, have opposable thumbs.

 

[Wippit Guud]

Re: Re: [3.5] Can a Bbn/Drd wield a glaive while wildshaped as a dire ape?

While I don't believe the glaive would be absorbed, given the Dire Ape's lack of opposable thumbs, I would be giving you a hefty penalty and a chance to drop the glaive on every strike.

All primates have opposable thumbs, it's how you differentiate a primate from other mammals

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: [3.5] Can a Bbn/Drd wield a glaive while wildshaped as a dire ape?

All primates have opposable thumbs, it's how you differentiate a primate from other mammals

Your right, poor choice of words.

Given their non-human shaped hands, I don't think dire ape would be able to grip a sword or polearm effectively.


Here's a shot of a gorilla hand:

http://www.mc.maricopa.edu/dept/d10/asb/primates/GorillaHand.jpeg

 

[Wippit Guud]

Every seen a gorilla pick up and stick and beat a monkey to death? Gotta love omnivores, although chimps are a lot worse for monkey hunting

 

[ForceUser]

Every seen a gorilla pick up and stick and beat a monkey to death? Gotta love omnivores, although chimps are a lot worse for monkey hunting

I would think that if it could pick up a stick it could pick up a hafted weapon like a glaive or a greataxe.

 

[Ruvion]

Yea but would they wield it proficiently considering their unwieldy (from a human's perspective) body composition? Even if mentally you'd know how to wield one...if your body does not support your expertise then it's all phooey. It's the one true peril of the body swaping thief (a good idea theretically but in reality it has its own problems).

 

[clark411]

Unless I'm mistaken (and if I am its no surprise), a Large dire ape wielding a reach weapon already gets 15 ft of reach (10 ft reach normally, and an extra five for the reach of the weapon). If the weapon grew along with you, you'd reach an obnoxious 20ft zone of combat reflexing AOOs.

With that Andy Collins quote of yours, it seems apparent that its up to the DM to give you some stretch in the realm of what your druid can and can't do. If I were that DM, I'd give you enough stretch to not have your weapon meld into you (as yes, Gorillas bash things with other things)... but I wouldn't let it grow to your size. Typically magic armor and magic items (like rings etc) do expand or contract to fit the wielder. Magic weapons do not.

 

[Camarath]

Unless I'm mistaken (and if I am its no surprise), a Large dire ape wielding a reach weapon already gets 15 ft of reach (10 ft reach normally, and an extra five for the reach of the weapon). If the weapon grew along with you, you'd reach an obnoxious 20ft zone of combat reflexing AOOs.

New obnoxious 3.5 rule

From SRD
Reach Weapons: Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

 

[ForceUser]

I think the key question that needs to be answered is "does the weapon grow to Large size when the druid grows to Large size?" Unfortunately, alter self is as unclear on this as enlarge person and righteous might are clear. One can infer certain things, such as since projectiles leaving your person while under the effect of enlarge person revert to their normal size, and any part of the body or piece of equipment that is separated from the whole reverts to its true form while under the effect of wild shape, therefore a parallel can also be drawn with regards to weapons growing in size (I.E., they do with enlarge person, so they must with polymorph). Since it is not clear, however, it's going to be up to my DM until an official ruling comes down from on high.

Too bad.