D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Character Development help: Cleric turned Lyken

[irdeggman]

From the SRD

Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid or giant hit by a natural lycanthrope’s bite attack in animal or hybrid form must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or contract lycanthropy. If the victim’s size is not within one size category of the lycanthrope the victim cannot contract lycanthropy from that lycanthrope. Afflicted lycanthropes cannot pass on the curse of lycanthropy.

Here's another idea,

Maybe the DM is more story based than rules-based (seems that way since a lot of rules have been either waived or flat out changed) - so look for a story reason to remove the affliction.

Maybe killing the original lycan would cure all descendants, etc.

Also if I'm not mistaken a paladin is immune to this disease - so maybe becoming a paladin is part of the story arc too.

Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.

Also make sure that the following now applies (since the penalties do the benefits should likewise);

from the SRD

LYCANTHROPES AS CHARACTERS
Becoming a lycanthrope does not change a character’s favored class but usually changes alignment (see above). This alignment change may cause characters of certain classes to lose some of their class features.
Lycanthrope characters possess the following racial traits.
— +2 Wisdom. Physical abilities are increased by the animal form’s ability modifiers when a lycanthrope changes to its hybrid or animal forms.
—Size same as the base creature or the base animal form.
—Low-light vision in any form.
—Scent in any form.
—Racial Hit Dice: A lycanthrope adds the Hit Dice of its animal form to its base Hit Dice for race, level, and class. These additional Hit Dice modify the lycanthrope’s base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses accordingly.
—Racial Skills: A lycanthrope adds skill points for its animal Hit Dice much as if it had multiclassed into the animal type. It gains skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die of the animal form. Any skills that appear in the animal’s description are treated as class skills for the lycanthrope’s animal levels. The lycanthrope’s maximum skill ranks are equal to its animal form Hit Dice + its racial Hit Dice (if any) + its class levels + 3. Any racial skill adjustments of the lycanthrope’s base race and its animal form (but not conditional adjustments) are added to its skill modifiers in any form.
—Racial Feats: Add the animal’s Hit Dice to the base character’s own Hit Dice to determine how many feats the character has. All lycanthropes gain Iron Will as a bonus feat.
— +2 natural armor bonus in any form.
—Special Qualities (see above): Alternate form, lycanthropic empathy, curse of lycanthropy (in animal or hybrid form only).
—Afflicted lycanthrope: damage reduction 5/silver (in animal or hybrid form only).
—Natural lycanthrope: damage reduction 10/silver (in animal or hybrid form only).
—Automatic Languages: As base creature.
—Favored Class: Same as the base creature.
—Level adjustment: Same as the base creature +2 (afflicted) or +3 (natural).

 

[Zemarah]

You're so awesome, thanks for all that. I actually just contacted one of the players and they HAD forgotten about natural/afflicted rules. I'm going to try to play my cards right about the alignment. Maybe I can get them to look it up themselves and then tell me....

Also thanks for the stats, I've been really lazy about opening my MM. I've been afraid of what I would find.

I bet the suggestion about storyline is probably right. There has to be a reason my anti-evil DM has turned us all evil. Maybe I have to do something evil to get the cure so I can be good again. Like kill the DM. >

 

[irdeggman]

I bet the suggestion about storyline is probably right. There has to be a reason my anti-evil DM has turned us all evil. Maybe I have to do something evil to get the cure so I can be good again. Like kill the DM. >

Nope - get him some Angel Food cake

 

[Zemarah]

Okay, I figure I'll embarass myself a little now. I'm having trouble adjusting my character sheet. Finally dug out my MM and took a look at the EXTENSIVE breakdown. I'm listing my char and my guesses at the alterations. And a few questions. Any help is welcome. I always had trouble with the MM.

Original
Cleric 7/Rogue 2 ELF
STR 12 AM 1
DEX 16 AM 2
CON 12 AM 1
INT 16 AM 3
WIS 16 AM 3
CHA 13 AM 1

FORT 9
REF 5
Will 8

HP 59
AC 28= Armor Bonus 10 +Shield Bonus 4+ Dex Mod 2+Feat 2
BAB +5
Grapple +6


Lycanthrope/Cleric/Rogue ELF
STR AM 2
DEX AM 4
CON AM 4
Wisdom: 18 AM 4

BAB
Human: 7 / Wolf: 7 / Hybrid: 7
Grapple:
Human: 9 / Wolf: 10 / Hybrid: 10

AC
Human 29 / Wolf: 19 / Hybrid 19

+4 Survival in all forms?

Feats: Improved Init, Iron Will, Stealthy, Track, Weapon Focus (bite)

And all the attacks that are listed I have.

The big questions I have are:

1. Do I modify my Ability score to match the Ability Modifiers that the MM provides? And does that score only apply in wolf/hybrid form?

2. Do I roll the extra HD for my HPs with my DM for my wolf/hybrid form only? What dice? The MM explained this like I should already know-which I should, but whatev-and it explained a way to alter the HD they provide using my consititution mod...but they GAVE me my stupid CON AM so why the hell would I have to alter it?

3. I'm supposed to go up in level. +2 for afflicted. Does this mean I'm a Level 10 Cleric/Rogue/Lycan until I'm cured? OR Does the level adjust only count when I'm in form? Also I'm supposed to get extra skpnts for going up in level. Is my new rank max 13 now?

4. And I quote from the MM: "Afflicted lycanthrope: damage reduction 5/silver (in animal or hybrid form only)" <===huh? I know this means something. I'm absolutely sure of it. Please help.

5. Another quote: "Racial Feats: Add the animal's Hit Dice to the base character's own Hit Dice to determine how many feats the character has." <===I swear they told me that they altered the 'animal's' hit dice to begin with which I was supposed to alter to fit my base creature.

6. It says that I get more feats based on the level adjustments, and any extra due to the gift of feats at acheiving lycanthropy can be considered bonuses. To clarify: They gave me five feats when I got afflicted. If I go up a couple levels I can't see how I could possibly attain more than five feats. Why would they mention that if it doesn't seem possible? Why didn't they just say: "The extra feats are considered bonuses." and not even say that you're due the extra feats from gaining the levels?

These are my questions, and all of the information I have learned from reading the accursed MM. If it seems I left something out, please let me know. I may not know that there's something else.

I really desperately need your help so I can start to be a competant player instead of a filthy leach on the campaign. I swear I know some stuff, but my ignorance of the number game has messed me up in this turn of events.

Thanks in Advance,
Your sniveling servant,

Z

 

[Starbuck_II]

Okay, I figure I'll embarass myself a little now. I'm having trouble adjusting my character sheet. Finally dug out my MM and took a look at the EXTENSIVE breakdown. I'm listing my char and my guesses at the alterations. And a few questions. Any help is welcome. I always had trouble with the MM.

Original
Cleric 7/Rogue 2 ELF
STR 12 AM 1
DEX 16 AM 2
CON 12 AM 1
INT 16 AM 3
WIS 16 AM 3
CHA 13 AM 1

FORT 9
REF 5
Will 8

HP 59
AC 28= Armor Bonus 10 +Shield Bonus 4+ Dex Mod 2+Feat 2
BAB +5
Grapple +6

Looks good
So here are your bonuses:
Str +2
Con + 4
Dex +4
NA +2 in human form
NA +4 in wolf/Hybrid
Add that to your stats in werewolf form only (wolf/Hybrid both)
Similar to using Barbarian Rage except no options taken away (Rage removes combat expertise for example, but you don't get that penalty)

You get +2 Wis in any form (human/Werewolf/Hybrid).

You gain 2 LA for being an afflicted Werewolf. You also gain 2 HD.
LA are levels that provide nothing (don't count for feat/Stat acquisition either). So you only uise them for purposes of gaining a level (you count as 2 levels higher for Exp for a level).

1. Do I modify my Ability score to match the Ability Modifiers that the MM provides? And does that score only apply in wolf/hybrid form?

Just add them when in Hybrid/Wolf form (pretend your casting a buff spell that activates only when changed because in essence that is how it works). Now you know how the Barbarian feels when he rages (Str/Con, but you also get Dex).

2. Do I roll the extra HD for my HPs with my DM for my wolf/hybrid form only? What dice? The MM explained this like I should already know-which I should, but whatev-and it explained a way to alter the HD they provide using my consititution mod...but they GAVE me my stupid CON AM so why the hell would I have to alter it?

You roll the extra HD (animals use d8's). So you get 2d8.
You apply yourt human Con to your hps.

Then you get some Additional Con bonus of 2 hp/HD (+4 Con) while transformed (just like a Barbarian in Rage which is why I keep using that example). These go away first so don't rely on them if your not healed before changing back to a human.

3. I'm supposed to go up in level. +2 for afflicted. Does this mean I'm a Level 10 Cleric/Rogue/Lycan until I'm cured? OR Does the level adjust only count when I'm in form? Also I'm supposed to get extra skpnts for going up in level. Is my new rank max 13 now?

As I said you count as Effective Character level 13 (7 Cleric+2 Rogue+ 2 Wolf +2 LA=13), but LA are empty levels that provide nothing. They are balancing mechanic WotC uses to make the creature playable (not saying they are done correctly sometimes).
So unless cured you count as level 13 for Exp you have; so you need a huge margin to gain a level and become level 14 (compared to how much your party needs since they level 9 or 10?).
Empty levels (LA) give nothing so no new skills, no Skill ranks up, don't count for feats, hps, etc. Just Experienced (LA are never fun, heh).

4. And I quote from the MM: "Afflicted lycanthrope: damage reduction 5/silver (in animal or hybrid form only)" <===huh? I know this means something. I'm absolutely sure of it. Please help.

While wolf/Hybrid you take 5 less weapon/Natural weapon damage. Unless the creature's attack is made or counts as silver.

Example, you get stabbed with long sword: you take -5 less damage: So he rolls a 5 and 2 Str = 2, you only take 2 damage.
But if it was a silver long sword, your DR is useless (because that is its weakness, mythology thing, werewolfs being killed by silver bullets in stories) but -1 damage from being silver = (same weapon roll) = 6 damage.

But the cool thing? Silver makes weapons deal 1 less damage naturally so not many people use silver (unleess they know a werewolf is coming).

5. Another quote: "Racial Feats: Add the animal's Hit Dice to the base character's own Hit Dice to determine how many feats the character has." <===I swear they told me that they altered the 'animal's' hit dice to begin with which I was supposed to alter to fit my base creature.

This is a reminder you gained 2 HD (from wolf) so you might gain stat point or a feat (every 3 HD you gain a feat/Every 4 HD you gain +1 to a stat).
Sometimes the Monster Manual is redunant to make sure it is clear.

6. To clarify: They gave me five feats when I got afflicted. If I go up a couple levels I can't see how I could possibly attain more than five feats. Why would they mention that if it doesn't seem possible? Why didn't they just say: "The extra feats are considered bonuses." and not even say that you're due the extra feats from gaining the levels?

So you gain the Wolf's feats (any feat that wolfs have a feat in Monster Manual in Animal section).
You also gain Iron Will for being a Lycan.

So Wolf grants:
Track and Weapon focus (Bite).

So you gain 3 feats: Track, Iron will, and Weapon Focus (bite).

The Sample Werewolf in Monster Manual chose Stealth and Improved Init as feats from leveling. And sadly, he is missing a feat. (he should have 1 more due to being a human...sadly even Monster manual has errors).

Thanks in Advance,
Your sniveling servant,

Z

I always wanted a servant

But don't worry, you'll get the hang of it.
I mean, you'll have to get more Exp for a level so it will be some time till you more more spells/day, sneak attack dice, etc until you get cured.

But your hp/AC go up in human form. And if you don't mind turning evil: get you get cool bonuses in animal form/Hybrid form.

You should be able to talk in Hybrid form so you can still cast spells.

Good luck.

 

[irdeggman]

You gain when in animal or hybrid form (from your normal human stats)

+2 Str, +4 Dex and +4 Con it says your physical abilities are increased by the animal form's ability modifiers when in hygrid or animal form - I went to the stats for human and animal form to fidn the "differences")

You gain a +2 to Wis (all of the time)

You get low-light vision in all forms

You get scent in all forms

You get +2 d8 HD (it appears those are also in all forms) {The d8 is the standard monster HD, bet the werewolf table specifically lists them as +2d8 anyway}

For those 2 monster hit dice you get 2 + Int mod in skill points. You get the following as class skills for the monster HD: Handle Animal, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival.

You also get Control Shape (see MM pg 303) as a class skill always (since your PC is aware of the condition now)

You get a +4 bonus to survival checks when tracking by scent in hybrid or animal form.

Your ECL is 13 = 7 (cleric) + 2 (rogue) + 2 HD (lycanthrope) + 2 LA

This moves your xp total up and you are now treated as a 13th character for advancement purposes. But your max skill ranks, character level based feats and ability score increases are only based on your HD (so you are an 11th level character for those purposes).

And yes work it out with your DM for how to "roll up" the monster level HD. It all depends on the standard used for your game, these are "regular HD" in that regards.

Note that the EL of the party has just jumped up based on your sudden advancement of 4 levels. That is the reason I really, really hate gaining templates in the middle of the game and choose to instead use the Savage Progression method (see the Wizards of the Coast Site for the articles on that subject. Basically they treat it ais a class level advancment which moves your character up gradually rather than suddenly. Ask the DM about this set of articles and see if he likes them or not.)

Savage Progressions: Ghost and Werewolf Template Classes

 

[Zemarah]

Thanks you guys for responding...I have a lot of trouble working out these crazy little MM rules. I've been playing for a long time but I've realized since starting this new campaign with new people that for years I've relied heavily on the guys in the group to think about this stuff for me. I'm really trying to shape up now, which is why I've joined some forums. Take my responsibility seriously.

I'm absolutely sure I'll be asking more questions about this template again pretty soon, so please stay cool