D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Charge problems (Do NOT post here, please. Use [3.5] and [3.0] topics)

[Pielorinho]

I dunno -- we've always played that charges are a full action, and there's a couple of charges in nearly every battle. That said, I don't see it as an overpowered tactic at all, and so I'll only be taking the changes to charges that make sense to me -- and this specifically does not include the overrun-opponents-but-not-allies change.

Daniel

 

[Storm Raven]

I've seen just about too many strange charge-like maneuvers (including people running backwards so they get the 10ft move enough to charge back in and get the bonus) to be sympathetic.

I assume that you missed some of the text in the 3.0 description of charge then. From the 3.0 SRD:

Description: The character must move before attacking, not after. The character must move at least 10 feet and may move up to double base speed. All movement must be in a straight line, with no backing up allowed. The charge stops as soon as the character threatens the target. A character can't run past the target and attack from another direction.

"No backing up allowed" and "all movement must be in a straight line" seem to disallow the sort of shenanigans you describe.

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

I assume that you missed some of the text in the 3.0 description of charge then. From the 3.0 SRD:

I misread nothing - it wasn't my broken character trying to do all this. My best guess is they were trying to exploit the "you may charge with a standard action" described when you only have a move or standard action (surprise round, slowed, etc).

The relevant text has been noted and sent on to my DM - the munchkin's already going to be crying foul over nerfing of his cherry picked character. One more whine is not going to matter.

- Ma'at

 

[Storm Raven]

I misread nothing - it wasn't my broken character trying to do all this. My best guess is they were trying to exploit the "you may charge with a standard action" described when you only have a move or standard action (surprise round, slowed, etc).

The "you" was intended as a "your game group" or "your circle of D&D playing friends" more than a "you, specifically". The key is that even if they make a partial charge as part of a full round action (by taking, for example, an MEA and then partial charging, most commonly to draw a weapon or equip a shield or something), then any movement they make must still be in a straight line. No matter what else you do, in order to charge, all of your movement in a round must be in a straight line.

The relevant text has been noted and sent on to my DM - the munchkin's already going to be crying foul over nerfing of his cherry picked character. One more whine is not going to matter.

It isn't a "nerfing" of his character if you actually enforce the rules as written. If the rules had been enforced from the start, then he would never have been able to get away with these sorts of shenanigans to begin with. It is his fault that he based his character on breaking the rules, not the DMs fault for enforcing them.

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

It isn't a "nerfing" of his character if you actually enforce the rules as written.

I doubt he'll make the distinction.

I know we made a mistake (more to the point, we stuck to an improper assessment of the rules stemming from an attempt by the DM to end a session-swallowing argument from this player about why he should be able to do these things). I am happy with the real rules, our group is happy with the real rules, he will likely not be.

 

[Artoomis]

No matter what else you do, in order to charge, all of your movement in a round must be in a straight line.
[/B]

If you include the FAQ as part of 3.0 rules, you are correct. By core 3.0 rules (as written in the PHB) the charge must be in a stright line, but any extra action (partial action from Haste) would not have to be. That's because nowhere in the core rules is it stated that all movement in the round must be in a straight line, only the charging movement.

Of course, without any extra partial action all movement could only be in a straight line with no backing up.

But that's off-topic here. We are talking about the 3.5e charge.

 

[Storm Raven]

That's because nowhere in the core rules is it stated that all movement in the round must be in a straight line, only the charging movement.

What part of "all movement must be in a straight line" is unclear? It doesn't say "charging movement", it says all movement. Not "some", "part", or anything other than "all".

 

[Storm Raven]

I doubt he'll make the distinction.

Then my assessment would be that he's not worth gaming with and should be booted from the group forthwith. But that's just me.

I know we made a mistake (more to the point, we stuck to an improper assessment of the rules stemming from an attempt by the DM to end a session-swallowing argument from this player about why he should be able to do these things). I am happy with the real rules, our group is happy with the real rules, he will likely not be.

The DM should just tell him this: you've been cheating the rules for months, and getting away with it. Now we are going to use the rules as written, and you can either shut up about it, or go whine to someone else, because this discussion is over. If you bring it up again, you character will irrevoacably age to the maximum for your race and die, with no possibility of being raised ever again. Instantly. No saving throw or appeal."

 

[Artoomis]

What part of "all movement must be in a straight line" is unclear? It doesn't say "charging movement", it says all movement. Not "some", "part", or anything other than "all".

It says "all movement" under the charge action. It does not say "all movement during the round."

So, technically, in 3.0e, you could take a Hasted partial action to move in any way you want and then use the rest of the round to charge, following all the charging rules, including going in a straight line. Of course, you could also charge, ending normally, and then take a partial action to move, using the same logic.

The way it is written, it means, when charging, all you movement must be in a straight line. You are not charging when taking your partial action.

Again, this is off-topic and, besides, does not work that way per the FAQ anyway, so let's drop it here and take it up in a new topic, of you like.

This is a moot point for 3.5, though, as there are no "extra" partial actions like in 3.0.

 

[Storm Raven]

It says "all movement" under the charge action. It does not say "all movement during the round."

It does not need to. It says "all", it means "all". It doesn't say "all charging movement". it says "all". Any other interpretation is torturing words to mean things they don't actually mean. I'll drop it at that.