D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Charge revisited

[Artoomis]

This has been discussed before. I'd just like to know if anyone has seen anything more-or-less official from WotC on this.

The 3.5 rules do not let you charge through an ally. In every other case you can move through an allies square. For an overrun, you can even move through an enemies square if they choose to let you go by during your charge.

Note that the overrun feat contradicts the charge movement rules by stating that you can always move thourgh a square when someone lets you go by.

Also, Ride-By Attack become virtually impossible is you really have to "move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent." It would be most unusual for that space to be where you could keep going without running into the opponent.

This is obviously ludicrous. Have these been fixed yet?

FYI: The rules:

Friend: You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character, unless you are charging. When you move through a square occupied by a friendly character, that character doesn’t provide you with cover.

Overrun: During your movement or as part of a charge, you can attempt to move through a square occupied by an opponent.

CHARGE
Charging is a special full-round action that ... carries tight restrictions on how you can move.
Movement During a Charge: You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.
You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)...
If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn...

OVERRUN
You can attempt an overrun ... as part of a charge. ...With an overrun, you attempt to plow past or over your opponent (and move through his square) as you move...
If you’re attempting to overrun an opponent, follow these steps...
Step 2: Opponent Avoids? The defender has the option to simply avoid you. If he avoids you, he doesn’t suffer any ill effect.
If you were attempting the overrun as part of a charge, you may keep moving. (You can always move through a square occupied by someone who lets you by.) In either case, the overrun attempt doesn’t count against your actions this round (except for any movement required to enter the opponent’s square). If your opponent doesn’t avoid you, move to Step 3.

 

[borc killer]

Check out the 3.5 PH errata PDF on their site. it addresses this some.

Borc Killer

 

[Artoomis]

Ah, yes.

So the fix is that you cannot overrun as part of a charge.

What idiocy. The lunatics are running the asylum!!

This, of course, does not fix the problem with Ride-by Attack.

Ah well, at least that's an official answer, even if it is wrong-headed. I wonder what rule the Living Campaigns will use? Anyone know?

 

[FrankTrollman]

Note that this has also left the Trample feat as a pathetic shell of a feat with no real purpose at all. That errata was and is completely puzzling. Wizards can protect themselves indefinately by simply opening up a basket of squirrels in the middle of battle - enemies cannot charge through the squares occupied by squirrels.

I think the Living Campaigns will use a smattering of hodge podge rulings - like they did for the insanity that was Combat Reflexes in 3e.

-Frank

 

[Hypersmurf]

Wizards can protect themselves indefinately by simply opening up a basket of squirrels in the middle of battle - enemies cannot charge through the squares occupied by squirrels.

Unless the enemies cast Enlarge Person.

-Hyp.

 

[Snipehunt]

Unless the enemies cast Enlarge Person.

-Hyp.

Throw the bucket 10 feet away. Those buckets of squirrels sure come in handy.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Throw the bucket 10 feet away. Those buckets of squirrels sure come in handy.

That's not the point. Squirrels are Tiny; an Enlarged human is Large. A creature three sizes smaller than you does not obstruct your movement.

-Hyp.

 

[FrankTrollman]

Yeah, but people who are enlarged with enlarge person can't run or charge anyway, so the point is moot.

-Frank

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Yeah, but people who are enlarged with enlarge person can't run or charge anyway, so the point is moot.

-Frank

Uh, what? Where does it say that?

Enlarge Person

This spell causes instant growth of a humanoid creature, doubling its height and multiplying its weight by 8. This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one. The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a –2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size.

A humanoid creature whose size increases to Large has a space of 10 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. This spell does not change the target’s speed.

If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the creature attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it— the spell cannot be used to crush a creature by increasing its size.

All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell. Melee and projectile weapons affected by this spell deal more damage. Other magical properties are not affected by this spell. Any enlarged item that leaves an enlarged creature’s possession (including a projectile or thrown weapon) instantly returns to its normal size. This means that thrown weapons deal their normal damage, and projectiles deal damage based on the size of the weapon that fired them. Magical properties of enlarged items are not increased by this spell.

Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack,.

Enlarge person counters and dispels reduce person.

Enlarge person can be made permanent with a permanency spell.

Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yeah, but people who are enlarged with enlarge person can't run or charge anyway, so the point is moot.

"This increase changes the creature’s size category to the next larger one."

"All equipment worn or carried by a creature is similarly enlarged by the spell."

"Weight: This column gives the weight of a Medium version of the weapon. Halve this number for Small weapons and double it for Large weapons."

"Weight: This column gives the weight of the armor sized for a Medium wearer. Armor fitted for Small characters weighs half as much, and armor for Large characters weighs twice as much."

If you move up to size Large, and your weapons are "similarly enlarged", dealing damage based on their new size, their weight doubles. That's what a "similarly enlarged" weapon weighs. If it weighed eight times as much, it hasn't been "similarly enlarged", since Large weapons don't weigh that much.

-Hyp.