3.5, core classes forbidden

[MarkB]

I just finished playing a 7th-level "no core classes or races" online campaign going through White Plume Mountain, and it was great fun. My character was a changeling warlock, and we also had a catfolk ninja, a half-orc wu jen, and a half-giant psychic warrior.

My warlock was the main healer via wands of CLW. The only thing we really missed was non-standard healing. We managed to get a part-used wand of lesser restoration and a few scrolls of restoration by pooling party funds, but we had to be sparing with them.

Higher-level dragon shamans can fill in for some of the effects covered by the restoration spell family, but there are still some which require a dedicated cleric-type spellcaster to counteract.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

From experience, the shugenja plays a lot more like a sorcerer than a cleric, even if a healer,

He's not really a healer. He can heal, but there's a difference. Bards can heal, too, but aren't usually counted as healers. And some shugenja cannot heal at all.

The thing is that shugenjas are basically the only spellcasting class available to player characters in Rokugan. There can be sorcerers, but those are blood witches, absolutely non-PC friendly. It's like playing a Legate in Midnight, or a CE Erythnul follower in an exalted campaign.

So they have to provide all the magic: Buffs, Healing, Utility, Destruction.

In particular, at lower levels, wights, wraiths, and vampires are tough for parties without clerics.

But a breeze with a priest? Vampires and Wraiths have turn resistance, so you'll be having problems turning them, anyway.

 

[Remathilis]

Role Filling Fun

Barbarian: Dragon Shaman, Knight, Warblade
Bard: Beguiler, Spellthief, Dragon Shaman, Marshal
Cleric: Favored Soul, Shugenja, Archivist, Healer
Druid: Spirit Shaman
Fighter: Knight, Hexblade, Duskblade, Samurai, Swashbuckler, Warblade
Monk: Swordsage
Paladin: Knight, Crusader
Ranger: Scout, Dragon Shaman
Rogue: Scout, Ninja, Spellthief, Beguiler
Sorcerer/Wizard: Dread Necromancer, Warmage, Wu Jen, Warlock, Truenamer, Shadowcaster, Beguiler, Binder, Dragon Adept

Truenamer, Shadowcaster, Binder = Tome of Magic
Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade = Tome of Battle
Knight, Duskblade, Dragon Shaman, Beguiler = PHB2
Dragon Adept = Dragon Magic
Dread Necromancer, Archivist = Heroes of Horror
Marshal, Healer (Favored Soul, Warmage) = Miniature's Handbook

 

[Dave Turner]

Why not run Arcana Evolved? Brand new classes, brand new races, and it's still d20. Granted, the magic system is different, so players that want to stick with the divine/arcane system will probably resist AE.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think any of the non-PHB base classes get Turn Undead...

Eh...just make it a feat available to divine spellcasters.

 

[Wolfwood2]

Psionics and Magic would both be accepted as normal, and people would be more used to limited spell list spellcasters -- a high-level Favored Soul may not have restoration, so the PCs may have to quest for one specific FS who can actually cast that one spell they need.

Well, that depends.

Is the premise of the campaign, "the core classes don't exist"?

Or is the premise of the campaign, "the core classes may exist, but we're asking that none of the players use any levels of core classes in their PCs"?

Because that's going to result in a different feel.

 

[der_kluge]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think any of the non-PHB base classes get Turn Undead...

Cloistered Clerics (from UA) have turn undead.

So, you'd be wise to allow the variant classes from that product.

 

[Mark Hope]

You should be fine - as folks have pointed out there are plenty of classes that can replace those from the PHB. I've been running a campaign for a few weeks now that has only one unmodified core class (the sorcerer), and three modified core classes (horselord fighter variant from Dragon #310, hunter barbarian variant and totem barbarian variant - both from Unearthed Arcana). All other classes are either from other WotC books or from Arcana Evolved. It works fine and gives a solid feel to the game.

As for the undead (in addition to the points made above), you can also get use out of the spirit shaman, provided that the undead are incorporeal. From 2nd level, the spirit shaman can inflict damage in a burst on incorporeal undead (plus a host of other creatures that come under the "spirit" descriptor).

 

[Cam Banks]

If you have access to the Dragonlance Campaign Setting, you can take a look at two other base classes - the noble and the mystic. These two predate all of the other 3.5 base classes, so they might seem a touch underpowered. I've noticed a lot of the newer classes are pretty beefy.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[pawsplay]

He's not really a healer. He can heal, but there's a difference. Bards can heal, too, but aren't usually counted as healers. And some shugenja cannot heal at all.

Hence, "if." A shugenja of the Order of the Gentle Rain is certainly a healer, while a fire shugenja can't heal at all.

The thing is that shugenjas are basically the only spellcasting class available to player characters in Rokugan. There can be sorcerers, but those are blood witches, absolutely non-PC friendly. It's like playing a Legate in Midnight, or a CE Erythnul follower in an exalted campaign.

So they have to provide all the magic: Buffs, Healing, Utility, Destruction.

Outside of Rokugan, they have serious problems dealing with fiends and undead, which is the traditional province of the party cleric.

But a breeze with a priest? Vampires and Wraiths have turn resistance, so you'll be having problems turning them, anyway.

A 4th level cleric with the Sun domain can nuke a vampire on a good roll, actually. An ordinary cleric should be able to turn one, even with turn resistance, especially if they keep trying. Cure serious wounds is a vey serious threat to a vampire or wraith, and incorporeality does not protect you from positive energy. Searing light will fry a vampire. PRotection from evil will protect you from vampiric dominate... magic circle will protect everyone. Consecrate can neutralize turn resistance quite handily.

While they are still a threat, a party with a cleric is more of a threat to the undead than vice versa.