3.5 DMG NPC charts

[MeepoTheMighty]

I remember a lot of people grumbling about the new NPC charts in the DMG. Can someone explain why? The new charts seem a lot cleaner and more organized to me. Not only does it provide everything you need to know about an NPC in a handy little format, but it provides full stat blocks at 5th and 10th level as well. What exactly was the complaint?

Monte Cook says this in his review:

* The NPC tables in the DMG are now more open ended, and thus less useful. The NPC tables used to be there when you needed a 7th-level fighter or a 13th-level rogue right then and there, in the middle of a game. They came completely statted up and equipped. Now, if you want to use them in that way, you've got to stop in the middle of the game and decide which weapons the fighter uses and spend 8,000 gp on gear for the rogue. Thus, they are useless for the original goal. I guess the designers felt the charts were "boring," because you got the same 7th-level fighter every time. Now, they are clearly meant to be used as pre-game development aids to help make NPCs. Unfortunately, each 7th-level fighter is still going to be an awful lot like every other one using this method. What's more, if you're not in the middle of the game, there's no reason not to just make one up from scratch (or use one of the excellent character generators out there, many of which are free online).

I just don't see what he's getting at here. For his 7th level fighter example: From the chart, I see that a 7th level fighter has 57 hp, AC 22, Melee +11/+6, Ranged +9/+4, F/R/W +7/+3/+3, 18 skill points, and 7 feats. He has +1 full plate, a heavy steel shield, a +1 melee weapon, a masterwork ranged weapon, and 2900 gp.

Okay, sure, I guess you have to "stop and decide what weapon a fighter uses." Or just pick one, it's really not that big of an issue. How can Monte simultaneously claim that there's too much to choose, but "each 7th level fighter is going to be an awful lot like another?" Maybe I'm missing something here, but I find the new table a lot easier to use than the old table.

 

[Wormwood]

The tables are fine.

Another case of pre-3.5 hyperbole.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

So I'm not the only one who thought that? Whew.

I looked at those NPC tables first...and just said. "Hm. What's so bad about this?" They give you gold amount and basic equipment...not hard to go from there on the fly.

 

[Emiricol]

The tables are fine.

Another case of pre-3.5 hyperbole.

Yep.

Join BATGNOME!!

 

[DM_Matt]

They do not include a feat progression.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

They do not include a feat progression.

Exactly, which rather blows away Monte's "every NPC will be the same" argument.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me - any Fighter is going to have Weapon Focus (and Weapon Specialization at 4+) in their main weapon. You can give it to them for their secondary one too. Pick a feat chain from the book and give it to them. Or give them Toughness, Alertness, and Dodge. I mean, we've been playing the game for how long now, I think we all can think of a few feats to throw on a Fighter pretty quickly.

 

[dren]

Monte's right, the standard variety is going to be bland, but thats the point IMHO, if I want a specific character, I would have already created them with a mini-history.
During the game, I've often used those tables, to get a character of X level in the game, without much thought. They were handy, even if I had to spend 10 sec coming up with a weapon and given feats.

 

[Voadam]

In 3.0 they were ready to go characters with equipment, feats and skills done out, all you had to do to use the full stat block was open to the page and use them as is.

I don't have the 3.5 DMG but it sounds like now you have to pick all their feats, adjust their attacks, etc. Instead of an instant NPC that is ready to use, you have a partially done one, who still needs a bunch of choices to be made and adjustments to the base stats.

Of course you can choose to skip these steps and wing skill d20 modifiers and apply a random amount of "appropriate feats" as they come up, but then you can do that without the new DMG.

If so, then I am with Monte, this is less useful for on the spot needed stats for a random NPC they met on the fly.

Do they have equipment done out in the 3.5 one?

 

[coyote6]

Do they have equipment done out in the 3.5 one?

Some -- e.g., "+1 melee, +1 ranged" -- with "and x gp" additional gear (where x can be a number greater than the total of the listed gear). Some levels are, "as previous level, except y gp" -- basically, "same gear, but with more undefined". Basically, just major gear is covered; stuff like potions, scrolls, even most miscellaneous magic items, those are all up to the GM.