Grading the Rolemaster/Spacemaster System

How do you feel about the Rolemaster/Spacemaster System?

  • I love it.

    Votes: 11 13.3%
  • It's pretty good.

    Votes: 21 25.3%
  • It's alright I guess.

    Votes: 18 21.7%
  • It's pretty bad.

    Votes: 13 15.7%
  • I hate it.

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • I've never played it.

    Votes: 18 21.7%
  • I've never even heard of it.

    Votes: 0 0.0%


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Similar. I did play in a bit of Burning Empires (big fan of the source material) but the core engine fails to resonate for some reason. Can see how it works but not work up the motivation to use it.
 

pemerton

Legend
Burning Wheel is a system I'm curious about
I don't want to derail your RM thread too much: but BW has some surface-level resemblance, like a long and fiddly skill list, which results in characters with diverse capabilities that are set out on their PC sheets. BW does some basic skill stuff more cleanly than RM: augments (as in, things like how much does my skill in Disguise help my skill in Acting), and untrained tests ("Beginner's Luck").

Fight! in BW is probably on a par with RM combat for complexity, but these days I find it a bit more visceral. (Though it doesn't have RM crits.)

Where I think BW surpasses RM is in the other elements it brings to PC build, and the various ways it connects them to action resolution. It takes the richness and vividness of RMesque PCs, and their struggles and conflicts, to a whole new level.
 

aramis erak

Legend
Burning Wheel is a system I'm curious about -- I've played a version of it with Mouse Guard but haven't tried the original. I will add it to the list of "Grade..." posts. :)
Burning Wheel does a lot more differently than alike. It's relationship to MG is similar to RM vs MERP... RM has many more skills than MERP, but the ratings and rolling work the same way; MERP also reduced the complexity of the weapons. Meanwhile BW skills and difficulties are comparable to MG, but the skills in BW are much narrower and MANY more - 10× or so as many; the combat rules and details differ, there are many more actions in each of the 3 plotted combat systems than the 4 of Mouse Guard. And each of those is different from the others. The biggest difference is BITs work differently than MG BIGs; MG BIGs are all BW Beliefs, BW instincts are a different thing (essentially a situational automatic macro)... Plus Artha (≈ MG Rewards) has a third type, and there's no BW equivalent to Nature.
 
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Old Fezziwig

What this book presupposes is -- maybe he didn't?
and there's no BW equivalent to Nature.
Nature's not entirely the same, but I think it's pretty clearly an iteration on what Crane was trying to do with the emotional attributes (Greed, Grief, Hatred) in Burning Wheel. I'm not familiar with the second edition of Mouse Guard, but IIRC in the first edition, the end result for hitting the extremes of Nature was somewhat similar to hitting the extremes in the emotional attributes — it's an end game situation for the character.
 

Old Fezziwig

What this book presupposes is -- maybe he didn't?
Similar. I did play in a bit of Burning Empires (big fan of the source material) but the core engine fails to resonate for some reason. Can see how it works but not work up the motivation to use it.
I've gotten the impression that BWHQ isn't entirely satisfied with how Burning Empires works, though it prefigures some of the work they've done in Mouse Guard and Torchbearer in terms of breaking up play into some arrangement of turns.
 

aramis erak

Legend
Nature's not entirely the same, but I think it's pretty clearly an iteration on what Crane was trying to do with the emotional attributes (Greed, Grief, Hatred) in Burning Wheel. I'm not familiar with the second edition of Mouse Guard, but IIRC in the first edition, the end result for hitting the extremes of Nature was somewhat similar to hitting the extremes in the emotional attributes — it's an end game situation for the character.
MG 2e's changes are few and minor, save one that's memorable and very obvious: Lores no longer have skill levels, and used only for FoRK dice. (My players made extensive use of the option in 1e to use Wises to define things, so for me, that's a suboptimal change.)
 

EthanSental

Legend
Supporter
Rolemaster and more so MERPs were our groups first foray into a fantasy game (besides starting off with Marvel since we all read comics) besides D&D, mainly for the middle earth tie in and see what it was like. Fond memories and the Crit / fumble tables get the most smiles when we talk about it now. I did purchase a bunch of Rolemaster stuff on Fantasy grounds in hope of playing a game on line and letting it do much of the table look ups to speed up play….here hoping we get a game in during 2024!
 
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pemerton

Legend
I did purchase a bunch of Rolemaster stuff on Fantasy grounds in hope of playing a game on line and letting it do much of the table look ups to speed up play
I know that ICE (current incarnation) is in the process of releasing their RMU (RM unified) material. I haven't bought any of it, but my understanding is that it is probably closer to RM2 than RMSS in basic structure.
 

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