D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Flat-footed, Balance, and Terminology

[doktorstick]

All quotes are from the SRD. From the Balance skill (emphasis mine):

Being Attacked while Balancing: You are considered flat-footed while balancing, since you can't move to avoid a blow, and thus you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). If you have 5 or more ranks in Balance, you aren't considered flat-footed while balancing. If you take damage while balancing, you must make another Balance check against the same DC to remain standing.

From the flat-footed condition:

Flat-Footed: A character who has not yet acted during a combat is flat-footed, not yet reacting normally to the situation. A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

Which is the mistake? Does flat-footed encompass more than just "before you act"? It doesn't imply that the character cannot attack while balancing because the Balance skill discusses charging, a form of attack.

/ds

 

[rhammer2]

It is the balance skill, they should have just said that you loose your dex bonus while balancing unless you have 5 or more ranks of balance.

All quotes are from the SRD. From the Balance skill (emphasis mine): From the flat-footed condition: Which is the mistake? Does flat-footed encompass more than just "before you act"? It doesn't imply that the character cannot attack while balancing because the Balance skill discusses charging, a form of attack.

/ds

 

[Hypersmurf]

The two are substantially different.

From the current wording, a Balancing character cannot make attacks of opportunity, but does retain his Dex bonus if he has Uncanny Dodge.

If you change it to simply "loses his Dex bonus", he can make AoOs, but arguably does not retain his Dex bonus with Uncanny Dodge.

The flat-footed condition also interacts with Iaijutsu rules from OA, where simply losing one's Dex bonus does not.

-Hyp.

 

[doktorstick]

Yeah, but is that the intent? I can rationalize that balancing characters do not get an AoO, but am uncertain if that is intended.

 

[Metallian]

A flat-footed character loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) and cannot make attacks of opportunity.

I would say that that part is the definition of the "Flat-Footed" condition, and the first sentence is merely an example of the most common way to trigger that condition.

It's a little weird, but it makes more sense to me than any other interpretation I can think of.

The Metallian

 

[doktorstick]

Re: Re: [3.5] Flat-footed, Balance, and Terminology

I would say that that part is the definition of the "Flat-Footed" condition, and the first sentence is merely an example of the most common way to trigger that condition.

You would think. But, then again, those uber-precise folk here at enworld.org felt inclined to point out (read "jump down one's throat") when the offender used flat-footed to describe a condition that occurred after the character's first action.

/ds

 

[LokiDR]

Flatfooted is different than loss of dex for climbing, for example. This point is often missed, so people here point it out, sometimes with gusto .

I think the balance skill adds to the flatfooted description. Neither is wrong, but neither is really complete. I also think this is a useless change in 3.5, but that is just me

 

[Metallian]

It even makes intuitive sense to me that, if a person is trying to keep their balance, they:

- lose their Dex bonus to AC
- can't make Attacks of Opportunity

and that there's really no need to invent a new condition to cover this particular circumstance when Flat-Footed already covers it.

The Metallian

 

[Bauglir]

except that flat-footed people do not always lose their dex bonus to ac...

 

[doktorstick]

except that flat-footed people do not always lose their dex bonus to ac...

Precisely.