D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Help with New Defensive Feats

[Cabral]

Last game I played, 2 characters had one monk level. At least one of them had it just to beef up their AC. Here are some feats I thought of as alternate to harvesting monks for their AC bonus but distinctive enough as to fufill a seperate roll...

Defensive Insight [General]
By heightening your awareness of your surroundings, you instinctively no where maneveur as to avoid an incoming attack.
Prerequisite: ?
Benefit: A character with this feat may add his Wisdom bonus to his AC instead of his Dexterity bonus. Whichever bonus is used, the bonus is limited by the Maximum Dexterity Bonus from armor or weight carried as normal.
Special: A fighter may select Defensive Insight as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Defensive Strategy [General]
Your intense study of tactics allows you to predict and avoid incoming attacks.
Prerequisite: ?
Benefit: A character with this feat may add his Intelligence bonus to his AC instead of his Dexterity bonus. Whichever bonus is used, the bonus is limited by the Maximum Dexterity Bonus from armor or weight carried as normal.
Special: A fighter may select Defensive Strategy as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Art of Defense [General]
With your immaculate understanding of strategy and quick mind, only the most skillful of attacks may strike you.
Prerequisite: Defensive Strategy
Benefit: A character with this feat may add his Intelligence bonus to his AC in addition to his Dexterity bonus. The total bonus is limited by the Maximum Dexterity Bonus from armor or weight carried as normal.
Special: A fighter may select Art of Defense as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Zen Defense [General]
You are one with your surroundings and react with supernatural insight and agility to attacks.
Prerequisite: Defesnive Insight
Benefit: A character with this feat may add his Wisdom bonus to his AC in addition to his Dexterity bonus. The total bonus is limited by the Maximum Dexterity Bonus from armor or weight carried as normal.
Special: A fighter may select Zen Defense as one of his fighter bonus feats.

I was thinking these bonuses might be Insight bonuses or Dodge bonuses to AC to keep them from stacking with each other. Also, I'm not sure what I want to allow to stack with the monk and duelist bonuses, certainly not Zen Defense and Art of Defense.

Some ideas I've had for prereqs include:
For Int based defense:
Knowledge (Strategy)*, Balance*, Concentration*, Base Attack Bonus
For Wis based Defense:
Knowledge (Religion), Knowledge (Philosophy)*, Balance*, Concentration, Sense Motive*, Tumble, Base Reflex Save

*I prefer these requirements over the others. I diliberately didn't want to toss in a stat requirement as it would too limiting (19+ wis/int) or not really a limitation (13 wis/int)

 

[Ondo]

Combat Expertise seems like a good prerequisite for the int based defense, as it's an intelligence-related feat that increases your defense.

 

[Argus Decimus Mokira]

Hey

I'd have Dodge for both base feats, and LOTS of prereqs for the more advanced ones (like high ability scores in Int and Wis, repsectively)

Thanks
-Matt

 

[Cabral]

High Int and Wis requirements were my first thought but in my opinion, it's like restricting the feat to those who can benefit from it. If you really set a high requirement, you cut it off from people with a lower stat which would be when it's most balanced. It's the high stats that cause a balance question.

 

[Afrodyte]

Cabral> You have some good ideas here. However, I havesome questions (in no particular order of importance). Is there a reason why the Maximum Dex Bonus for wearing armor also applies to the AC bonus granted by these feats? What classes were these feats designed for? I for one would love more fighter-specific feats, and these add options for non-tank melee classes. What are your goals for introducing these feats? Are you trying to give more options to melee fighting classes? Prevent people from dabbling in monk for the AC bonuses? Create a way to have a cunning or perceptive character to benefit from these traits?

As far as criticisms of the feats, my main issue is that the limitations you put on them make it seem as though the feats are not worth taking. Given the choice between dabbling in monk or taking these feats as another class, I'd still dabble in monk. Though it is true that without some brakes, everybody will want these feats, I think that the best way to prevent abuse is to have steeper requirements rather than curbing the benefits. BAB, character class levels, and other feats are what I'd prefer for this class. The requirements you're tossing around for the feats don't really gel in my mind with the benefits you get from them. I understand your hesitance to use attribute requirements, but in the case of the feats you designed, they seem warranted. I wouldn't go as low as 13 or as high as 19, but the 15 - 17 range seems good for what you get out of the feats.

As for what I would require if I tweaked your ideas and put them into my own games, they'd go something like this:

Defensive Strategy: Combat Expertise, Intelligence 13+, BAB +6 or higher. I'd rule that when choosing the fighting defensively option, you gain an insight bonus to your AC equal to your Intelligence modifier. I may also rule that it only stacks with dodge bonuses (either overlapping or replacing armor bonuses).

Art of Defense: Combat Expertise, Intelligence 13+, BAB +6 or higher, Defensive Strategy. I'd give the insight bonus to AC equal to the Intelligence modifier, which is always on except when denied your Dexterity bonus to AC because this ability hinges on your ability to oberve an opponent and react to its maneuvers.

Defensive Insight: Wisdom 13+, Alertness (and/or Sense Motive skill). I'd make this work like the Paladin's Divine Grace ability, except that instead of adding the Charisma bonus to all saves, I'd add the Wisdom bonus to Reflex saves. To prevent abuse, I'd say it only stacks with the Lightning Reflexes feat. This feat is assumed to have been figured into the Monk's base Reflex save, so they gain no additional bonuses from it. It overlaps the Paladin's Divine Grace ability.

Zen Defense: Wisdom 15+, Alertness (and/or Sense Motive skill), Defensive Insight. This is where I'd put the Wisdom bonus to AC. Monks are assumed to already have this feat. I am inclined to say that this overlaps armor bonuses, but I'm not sure if this is the best way to go.

 

[Argus Decimus Mokira]

Hey

If not high scores, then at least medium, as Aphrodyte has pointed out. Basically, you don't want every Fighter made to make sure they have a 12 in Dex, Wis, and Int and pick up these four feats, then strapping on the full plate for even more AC. Then again, maybe you do.

I'd go with Dodge and a 13 in the base ability for the entry feat, and 15 for the second feat. That's just me.

I don't see it as restricting the feat to the characters who will benefit the most from it. Rather, I think it will play out as only the characters who will benefit the most from it will be willing to bump up those stats. The game's all about sacrificing one thing to get good in another.

Thanks
-Matt