[3.5] High level damage spells

[Anubis the Doomseer]

Quick fix to damage to the high level damage spells - give them the full force of their element behind them. High level acid and fire force saves against at least 3 of your items (more if failed), fire ignites objects (including you for consecutive round of fire damage), ice/cold destroys all potions and oils automatically (no save), sonic has a chance of permanent deafness, etc.

At high levels the idea behind an evocation spells should be to do more than just damage the opponent, the power behind them should outright destroy things.

just my opinion

- Ma'at

 

[Treebore]

They are doing this to make D&D a "friendlier" game, so that fewer characters will be killed. Personally, I am not nerfing any of the damage spells, harm, hold person, or haste for that matter. IMO spellcasters are the classes that everyone else should run from in fear, or at least be pissing down their leg when they stand and fight. That is also why you better have one or two in your own party, or you will die. "Gee, I died. BOO hoo! It is sooo unfair!"

"It is just a game, get over it and roll up another character!"

 

[Seule]

I always thought damage spells scaled horribly, this just makes it worse. Why use horrid wilting when all it does is use a different save and is a higher spell level. It was one of the better necro spells too.

I can answer this:
It's a Fort save, so different monsters will be more vulnerable.
It's not a Reflex save, so Evasion doesn't work.
It targets within an area, so you don't have to worry about hitting allies, ever.
It's Necromancy so different Spell focus applies (it could be an issue).
It's not Elemental damage, so nobody has specific resistance. Spell Resistance applies, but that's it, and at high levels, lots of stuff has elemental resistances, particularly PCs.

Sure, it no longer does 25d8 damage at cap, but given all the advantages over Evocation spells, I believe it's now balanced. It's Delayed Blast Fireball that I believe they have toned down too far. If it was errattad to d6s before, I was not aware, and I would have thought that was too low then, too.

Basically, my blast mage was too powerful. However, with Haste going away (a good change) that halves his potential right there, that was all the nerfing he needed. We were already running Time Stop basically by 3.5 rules.
I guess I better pick up Quicken Spell now. That's going to hurt.

--Seule

 

[Grog]

I can answer this:
It's a Fort save, so different monsters will be more vulnerable.

But good Fort saves are much, much more common in monsters than good Reflex saves.

 

[Seule]

But good Fort saves are much, much more common in monsters than good Reflex saves.

Well, I wouldn't want it to be my only attack spell, but it makes a great backup.

--Seule

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

FYI Delayed Blast Fireball was not nerfed.

It always did 1d6 damage per level. However, in the short description someone put in d8 instead (and not in the long description). This was errata'd a very long time ago.

 

[Al]

It's a Fort save, so different monsters will be more vulnerable

Sure, but fewer monsters will be vulnerable, and more PC classes have good Fort saves than Reflex saves.

It's not a Reflex save, so Evasion doesn't work

If you count Evasion as having two good Reflex saves (for argument's sake), then the Fort/Ref thing just about balances out...but hardly an argument to make a spell a higher level.

It targets within an area, so you don't have to worry about hitting allies, ever.

You won't have to 'worry' about hitting invisible or hidden enemies, enemies with Spell Turning or similar effects, enemies round the corner...targeted cuts both ways, particularly at high levels.

It's Necromancy so different Spell focus applies (it could be an issue).

...which, presumably, also cuts both ways (since you could have Spell Focus: Evocation).

It's not Elemental damage, so nobody has specific resistance

Except for undead, constructs and certain other monsters who are simply totally immune to it.

All in all, Horrid Wilting was a good and solid 8th level spell with 20d8 damage as a (nonepic) cap. With d6s, however, it's lame. Consider that at 15th level, HW does 15d6, whilst a Cone of Cold does identical damage for three levels lower. Consider that a Flame Strike, at *four* levels lower, does a comparable level of damage- if maximised, it does nearly twice as much, still at a level lower. DBF has a similar damage scaling at one level lower, and a nifty timer effect. Basically, I'm keeping HW with the d8s.