-
The VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Making a Scout a better archer?
- Thread starter Squnk
- Start date
Thanks everyone, I think I know what direction to go now I have been introduced to some cool feats. Just one last question, any suggestions for a PrC or another class to dip into? I don't really have any direction for this character other than I want to be a scout strong in archery?
krupintupple
First Post
IronWolf
blank
Follow StreamOfTheSky's advice and do Ranger with the Swift Hunter feat. Having the ranger levels can help a bit with getting the archery feats as part of the class and swift hunter helps the levels from both Scout and Ranger stack in regards to some of the special abilities.
I played a character that took this path in my last campaign and he worked out quite well.
pawsplay
Hero
Uh, straight Scout, or Scout + Ranger + Swift Hunter feat, or Scout + Highlands Stalker. If you really feel feat starved, you could build toward Scout 6/Fighter 4/Highlands Stalker 10, sacrificing a little skirmish for lots of feats and somewhat higher accuracy.
Even situationally, Shot on the Run is a super feat for a Scout. Full skirmish damage, and if the circumstances permit, you can begin and end with total cover.
pawsplay
Hero
The problem is, archery is very feat intensive, even with a couple bonus feats. Worse, the scout list is terrible.
Pulling from Crystalkeep because I'm too lazy to check the C.Adv book.
"Acrobatic, Acrobatic Skirmisher, Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Blind-Fight, Brachiation, Combat Expertise, Danger Dense, Dodge, Endurance, Far Shot, Great Fortitude, Hear the Unseen, Hinder(DR344 p103), Improved Acrobatic Skirmisher, Improved Initiative, Improved Swimming, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Mounted Fighting, Passive Reconnoiter, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Quick Reconnoiter, Ranged Skirmisher, Rapid Reload, Scout the Path, Shot on the Run, Skill Focus, Spring Attack, Track."
First off, many of those are just bad feats.
"And such small portions," LOL. Fortunately for you, you don't get too of them. Specifically, levels 4, 8, 12, you would be looking at Dodge, Mobility, and Shot on the Run. Levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12 could be something like Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot, and Manyshot. Level 15 is Greater Manyshot, and Level 18 is Improved Precise Shot. That's my take; feat intensive, sure, but you have strong mobile options, strong full attack options, and against low AC opponents, your hideous Greater Manyshot spray.
It is decidely a mistake to think you will be able to skirmish all the time. Multiple attack options are vital, and accuracy and range can help. My player's build did not go the Greater Manyshot route until much higher level, instead going Far Shot, Rapid Shot, and W focus (shortbow). He usually used skirmish attacks, but a good percentage of the time, he just sprayed clouds of arrows from halfway across the battlefield, ignoring cover, like a Veritech.
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
Dodge is a bad feat, Mobility is a godawful feat (especially since you can usually just 5 ft step out of melee and have Tumble), and Shot on the Run I'm not sure is worth it even if it didn't have those grisly pre-reqs. Like I said, you can't even Manyshot with it, and the uses for it are very very situational. Basically when you have various places for cover (can't move back to your original position with eratta), those locations are within 30 ft of enemies (you do like using your class features, right?), and the enemies have no way of closing to melee with you. If they lack ranged weapons in that specific scenario, you basically win without cover anyway. If they have ranged weapons, they just ready to shoot when you pop out and instead of full attack shoot outs, you trade single attacks. So even in the best possible case scenario, I don't see it being that useful.
As for your sample feat progression, it's ok. I don't like Manyshot, the penalties are pretty high and you don't get a lot of attacks for it. I think you underestimate how important it is to get Imp. Precise Shot ASAP, also.
Why is it a mistake to assume skirmish all the time? It gets half the damage of SA, is MUCH harder to full attack with, and gets much less rules support (ie, sexy new options like the Craven feat and Sniper's Shot spell). About the only advantage it has is that, yes, in fact, you can baically get it all the time if you want. Range limit might be an issue for one round or two while you enjoy shooting against enemies with likely weak or no ranged options as they close with you, not a huge problem. Crit immunity is a pain, but Swift Hunter mostly removes that headache.
I'm glad your player's happy, but his feat selection was far from optimal, and I'm just trying to advise the OP on what's best to do. Again, I don't get Far Shot did for him. Doesn't help skirmish at all, and if you're an archer fighting at 500+ ft, even with large penalties on your shots you basically win the encounter unless the other guy's a better archer than you. And how is he completely ignoring cover? That's what Imp. Precise Shot is for (well, not total cover) and why I consider it a critical archer feat.
My current Scout isn't an archer but a two weapon skirmisher. He's also human and is required to be a scoundrel type (read stealthy).
So to make him even more survivable, I've been adding other single classes. For example, I have taken/will be taking:
Monk for the saves, insight AC, Improved Grapple
Fighter for the feats (allowing Imp. TWF & Imp. Crit [our DM allows rapiers as light weapons])
Ranger for the Swift Hunter and because I hate undead
Cleric (yes, Cleric) because the only way I could boost my skirmishing was to take the Travel Domain feat (allows a move action as a swift action for one minute once per day) and by taking the Undeath domain I get extra turning which will allow me to do it two more times per day.
After the Cleric I'll pretty much be sticking with Scout for awhile (though I've been kidding around about adding single levels of all the other classes). Also because our healing sucks so a few CLWs is better than nothing.
BTW, I've also taken Telling Blow even though my DM rules that I only get the basic Skirmish on a crit and not the Improved Skirmish. Quite frankly, he's tired of me being better than the other characters.
So to make him even more survivable, I've been adding other single classes. For example, I have taken/will be taking:
Monk for the saves, insight AC, Improved Grapple
Fighter for the feats (allowing Imp. TWF & Imp. Crit [our DM allows rapiers as light weapons])
Ranger for the Swift Hunter and because I hate undead
Cleric (yes, Cleric) because the only way I could boost my skirmishing was to take the Travel Domain feat (allows a move action as a swift action for one minute once per day) and by taking the Undeath domain I get extra turning which will allow me to do it two more times per day.
After the Cleric I'll pretty much be sticking with Scout for awhile (though I've been kidding around about adding single levels of all the other classes). Also because our healing sucks so a few CLWs is better than nothing.
BTW, I've also taken Telling Blow even though my DM rules that I only get the basic Skirmish on a crit and not the Improved Skirmish. Quite frankly, he's tired of me being better than the other characters.
Sharkon
First Post
Generally i agree with streamofthesky dodge , mobility are bad feats and shot on the run is not a bad one but since you need the other 2 to get it...
You should gather some gold and invest it on many pairs of skirmisher boots (as one mentioned above) I know it sounds funny but a second attack every time you skirmish ? MARVELOUS !
You should gather some gold and invest it on many pairs of skirmisher boots (as one mentioned above) I know it sounds funny but a second attack every time you skirmish ? MARVELOUS !
StreamOfTheSky
Adventurer
I'd prefer Boots of Sidestepping or Anklets of Translocation, actually. Cheaper (per use per day) and lets you full attack. Or get a bunch of Chronocharms of the Horizon Walker. At 500 gp each, you could even pay double to get it as non-body slot if you want to actually use the precious neck slot they take up.
Best option, as is so often the case with any optimization in 3E, is to be a Cleric. Travel Devotion feat lets you move as a swift action for 1 min. once/day, and with Turn Undead attempts, you can buy more uses. As a cleric, you can also trade one of your domains to get the feat for free. So a 1 level cleric dip basicaly makes you set for most combat days. The annoying part is if the DM uses the RAW multiclassing rules, it's basically impossible to combine Cleric 1 ith Swift Hunter and not suffer an xp penalty.
EDIT: Didn't notice rad mentioned Travel Devotion before me. Oops.
