Mike Sullivan
First Post
Voadam said:
Yeah, it's goes:
1d6
1d8
1d10
2d6
2d8
2d10
Which is a smoother progression. But you only get the 2d10 at level 20. I don't recall where the rest of the cut-offs were.
Yup.
3.5 Monk Feedback
- Thread starter randomninja
- Start date
Yeah, it's goes:
1d6
1d8
1d10
2d6
2d8
2d10
Which is a smoother progression. But you only get the 2d10 at level 20. I don't recall where the rest of the cut-offs were.
Yup.
randomninja
First Post
Just to head off additional questions....
Flurry can be done with Monk weapons, Sai and quarterstaff have been added to the list of allowed weapons.
Evasion is a level 2 ability, Leap of clouds has been dropped entirely( Probably not needed as the jump rules have been rewritten) No other major power changes that we know of.
Also, multi-classing monks is cool now, instead of shooting yourself in the foot. Well, the pointless restrictions are still there, but the BAB issues are gone. Taking levels in another class shouldn't be any great hindrance. For example:
Monk11/Rogue9, the Ninja guy. Can flurry unarmed or with a monk weapon(Sai would be cool) at 14/14/14/9/4,+ uncanny dodge and sneak attack at 6d6. Could even take the Assasin Prc for maximum coolness!
Monk9/Ranger11, Has a Bab of 17, He can flurry at 17/17/12/7/2 or use his free Archery feats to attack at 15/15/10/5/0. Pluss he has an Animal Companion a favored enemy, and sweet tracking skills.
The Possibilities for Multi-Class monks are awesome now...
Flurry can be done with Monk weapons, Sai and quarterstaff have been added to the list of allowed weapons.
Evasion is a level 2 ability, Leap of clouds has been dropped entirely( Probably not needed as the jump rules have been rewritten) No other major power changes that we know of.
Also, multi-classing monks is cool now, instead of shooting yourself in the foot. Well, the pointless restrictions are still there, but the BAB issues are gone. Taking levels in another class shouldn't be any great hindrance. For example:
Monk11/Rogue9, the Ninja guy. Can flurry unarmed or with a monk weapon(Sai would be cool) at 14/14/14/9/4,+ uncanny dodge and sneak attack at 6d6. Could even take the Assasin Prc for maximum coolness!
Monk9/Ranger11, Has a Bab of 17, He can flurry at 17/17/12/7/2 or use his free Archery feats to attack at 15/15/10/5/0. Pluss he has an Animal Companion a favored enemy, and sweet tracking skills.
The Possibilities for Multi-Class monks are awesome now...
Last edited:
Mike Sullivan
First Post
My impression -- and maybe I'm wrong -- is that 3.5e Rangers would have, at 20th level, when using two weapons, an attack progression like this:
18/18/13/13/8/8/3
Compare to our guess at a 20th level Monk's bonus:
15/15/15/10/5
...I'm not real impressed with the Monk, assuming that both of the above are correct. Yeah, the Monk's 3rd attack is 2 points better than the Ranger's 3rd, but the Monk's 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th are all 3 points lower. And the Ranger has two more attacks.
Though a 20th level Monk's damage dice would be much better. Hmmm. Probably too early to tell.
18/18/13/13/8/8/3
Compare to our guess at a 20th level Monk's bonus:
15/15/15/10/5
...I'm not real impressed with the Monk, assuming that both of the above are correct. Yeah, the Monk's 3rd attack is 2 points better than the Ranger's 3rd, but the Monk's 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th are all 3 points lower. And the Ranger has two more attacks.
Though a 20th level Monk's damage dice would be much better. Hmmm. Probably too early to tell.
randomninja
First Post
Here's the thing on the Ranger comparison though:
1. 20th level isn't the whole story. Levels 1-10 the monk stays roughly 1 point behind in BAB, not 3.
2. Your Ranger is paying for two weapons. If he goes the classic double shortsword route, he's dishing out twice the cash for roughly the same effect as the monk who is focusing on his single magic kama. Either the monk is going to buy a superior one handed weapon, boosting his overall peformance, or he'll get a staff for 1 1/2x Strength with every attack, or a fist enhancer to dish out superior base damage.
3. Half of those Ranger attacks are at a 1/2 St bonus for damage. If both the Ranger and Monk have say, 22 Strength(To pull a number out of my head) The Ranger is doing 1d6+6 with half of his attacks, and 1d6+3 with the others. Because of the way his extra attacks work, he's just as likely to hit with the weaker hand as the stronger one.
Compare that to the monk who does either
1-6+6 every attack with his magic Kama or
2d10+6 with his boosted fists or
1-6+9 with his enchanted staff.
Thats why I said they are on roughly even ground overall. They both have their Advantages and Problems.
1. 20th level isn't the whole story. Levels 1-10 the monk stays roughly 1 point behind in BAB, not 3.
2. Your Ranger is paying for two weapons. If he goes the classic double shortsword route, he's dishing out twice the cash for roughly the same effect as the monk who is focusing on his single magic kama. Either the monk is going to buy a superior one handed weapon, boosting his overall peformance, or he'll get a staff for 1 1/2x Strength with every attack, or a fist enhancer to dish out superior base damage.
3. Half of those Ranger attacks are at a 1/2 St bonus for damage. If both the Ranger and Monk have say, 22 Strength(To pull a number out of my head) The Ranger is doing 1d6+6 with half of his attacks, and 1d6+3 with the others. Because of the way his extra attacks work, he's just as likely to hit with the weaker hand as the stronger one.
Compare that to the monk who does either
1-6+6 every attack with his magic Kama or
2d10+6 with his boosted fists or
1-6+9 with his enchanted staff.
Thats why I said they are on roughly even ground overall. They both have their Advantages and Problems.
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Something to consider is that the Ranger still has to shell out for magic equipment to get decent damage. Two magic swords, for instance, just to be able to make full use of their abilities.
A monk, with his unarmed damage and use of hands doesn't need to shell out for that expensive equipment. That's more gold that can be funneled into stat-boosting items instead of magic gear.
Me likey.
A monk, with his unarmed damage and use of hands doesn't need to shell out for that expensive equipment. That's more gold that can be funneled into stat-boosting items instead of magic gear.
Me likey.
Mike Sullivan
First Post
randomninja said:
True, that. But take a look at level 6, for example:
Monk: 3/3
Ranger: 4/4/-1/-1
The Ranger gets twice as many attacks, which stings a little.
True enough. I'm not trying to say "OMG!!!!1 The m0nk is broken!!!!!" or anything. I'm just saying that we should bear in mind that 15/15/15/10/5 is probably not as impressive in 3.5e as it would have been in 3.0e.
randomninja
First Post
Fair enough. I wasn't trying to say the monk was uber. It's more like "Check it out, the Monk doesn't Blow" I think the change is good enough for Monks to actually function as warrior subtypes( You know, roughly as dangerous as Rangers or Paladins) which is exactly what I was hoping to see. The Cool Multi-class possibilities are nothing to sniff at either. Check this one out.
Monk11/Wizard9 Cast 5th level spells, has Improved Evasion, and can still flurry at 12/12/12/7/2. Now if only his HP didn't suck...
Monk11/Wizard9 Cast 5th level spells, has Improved Evasion, and can still flurry at 12/12/12/7/2. Now if only his HP didn't suck...
Mike Sullivan
First Post
And a Monk 11/Fighter 9 can kick ass and take names, being as he attacks at +17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2 when flurrying.
By the way, have we confirmed that the second attack from flurrying actually takes place at primary attack bonus, and not -5? I can't find that anywhere in The Big Thread.
By the way, have we confirmed that the second attack from flurrying actually takes place at primary attack bonus, and not -5? I can't find that anywhere in The Big Thread.
randomninja
First Post
Yeah, it's been confirmed. Not only in that thread, but we were tipped off about it by Monk stat blocks in Dragon. Level 11 monk Bab with flurry at 8/8/8/3. Now if only You could do Barbarian/Monks without changing alignment....
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