D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Polymorph & Dismissal

[Alarikun]

So... an interesting question I must pose, after my most recent session (as the DM). One of my players, an Aasimar into Sublime Chord had chosen Polymorph as the spell.

Now, my group does not often optimize that much, at least not to the degree I am about to note. You see, he chose to take the Ghaele form, which gives an absurd NA bonus (+14), a fly speed, and a bunch of other things.

Now, Polymorph changes your TYPE AND SUBTYPE. My question would then be, can the Dismissal spell send a Polymrphed Aasimar (into Ghaele) to it's "home plane?" Of course, that would be the standard plane of a Ghaele, I would presume, but I wanted to check.

As a Ghaele, it would no longer be "Native Outsider" for the time period of Polymorph, right?

Thanks in advance, friends.

 

[Sekhmet]

Nail on the head. Since he is already an Outsider, he can Polymorph into other Outsiders, which can be Dismissed with the spell back to the native plane of the new Outsider type.

 

[Greenfield]

From the SRD...

POLYMORPH
Magic can cause creatures and characters to change their shapes—sometimes against their will, but usually to gain an advantage. Polymorphed creatures retain their own minds but have new physical forms.
The polymorph spell defines the general polymorph effect.
Since creatures do not change types, a slaying or bane weapon designed to kill or harm creatures of a specific type affects those creatures even if they are polymorphed. Likewise, a creature polymorphed into the form of a creature of a different type is not subject to slaying and bane effects directed at that type of creature.
A ranger’s favored enemy bonus is based on knowing what the foe is, so if a creature that is a ranger’s favored enemy polymorphs into another form, the ranger is denied his bonus.
A dwarf ’s bonus for fighting giants is based on shape and size, so he does not gain a bonus against a giant polymorphed into something else, but does gain the bonus against any creature polymorphed into a giant.

The highlighted section runs counter to what the spell says.

To me, that looks like an editing error. The changed the spell, but didn't correct the general heading info to match.

But I know of rules lawyers who life for that sort of stuff.

As for Polymorph into an Outsider: The Polymorph spell lists the types of creatures you can turn into. Outsider isn't on the list.

Now some DM's may allow someone who is already an Outsider to do that, but otherwise the answer should probably be no.

It's one of the odd points of these spells. A Half-Dragon can Alter Self into any kind of Dragon, but not into another Half-Dragon, since templates aren't allowed by the spell.

Over all, Polymorph is often considered one of the more broken spells in the book. Trying to bypass the few limits it has will probably piss people off.

 

[Sekhmet]

The subject’s creature type and subtype (if any) change to match the new form.

Magic can cause creatures and characters to change their shapes—sometimes against their will, but usually to gain an advantage. Polymorphed creatures retain their own minds but have new physical forms.

The polymorph spell defines the general polymorph effect.

Unless stated otherwise, creatures can polymorph into forms of the same type or into an aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin form. Most spells and abilities that grant the ability to polymorph place a cap on the Hit Dice of the form taken.

Polymorphed creatures gain the Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution of their new forms, as well as size, extraordinary special attacks, movement capabilities (to a maximum of 120 feet for flying and 60 for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons, racial skill bonuses, and other gross physical qualities such as appearance and number of limbs. They retain their original class and level, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, hit points, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and alignment.

Creatures who polymorph keep their worn or held equipment if the new form is capable of wearing or holding it. Otherwise, it melds with the new form and ceases to function for the duration of the polymorph.

No mention of Type changes, Bane, Slaying, etc.

Polymorph :: d20srd.org
Special Abilities :: d20srd.org


I can't find your version of Polymorph on the SRD. What'd you look under?

Okay. Just found it on D&D Wiki. It looks like the 3.0 version of Polymorph is still on D&D Wiki.

 

[kingius]

Also worth remembering that as the DM, anything the PC's do, you can match by utilising the same tactics. As the players go into optimise mode, you are in no way left behind. If a player does abuse Polymorph, make sure your big bad villains do too, it helps to keep the game balanced and just reminding players that if they optimise, you will too, will prevent lots of problems later on.

 

[Sekhmet]

I've never liked "If A does it, then Z will do it and it will be even" logic.
It doesn't really suggest to the player that the enemies will always be even, it just says that you're lazy and don't want them to be too powerful.

Better to "If A does B, then Z will do Y". This allows you to counter without just using the same old thing they are.

 

[kingius]

It just codifies what happens during the game anyway. Smart players learn that when NPC's throw powerful spells and combinations at them that they can do the same back once they learn those spells. This just lets them know that the DM can learn a few tricks too... and players need to be discouraged from trying to find exploits in the system for obvious reasons.

 

[Empirate]

So... an interesting question I must pose, after my most recent session (as the DM). One of my players, an Aasimar into Sublime Chord had chosen Polymorph as the spell.

Now, my group does not often optimize that much, at least not to the degree I am about to note. You see, he chose to take the Ghaele form, which gives an absurd NA bonus (+14), a fly speed, and a bunch of other things.

Now, Polymorph changes your TYPE AND SUBTYPE. My question would then be, can the Dismissal spell send a Polymrphed Aasimar (into Ghaele) to it's "home plane?" Of course, that would be the standard plane of a Ghaele, I would presume, but I wanted to check.

As a Ghaele, it would no longer be "Native Outsider" for the time period of Polymorph, right?

Thanks in advance, friends.

Have you considered just getting rid of Polymorph altogether? It's the most sensible ban inside Core I can think of, alongside Polymorph Any Object...

 

[Jack Simth]

As for Polymorph into an Outsider: The Polymorph spell lists the types of creatures you can turn into. Outsider isn't on the list.

As a couple of others have mentioned, it looks like you're accidentally looking at 3.0. The 3.5 Polymorph spell includes the line:

The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin

(Emphasis added)

 

[Greenfield]

No mention of Type changes, Bane, Slaying, etc.

Polymorph :: d20srd.org
Special Abilities :: d20srd.org


I can't find your version of Polymorph on the SRD. What'd you look under?

Okay. Just found it on D&D Wiki. It looks like the 3.0 version of Polymorph is still on D&D Wiki.

Actually, the section I quoted is from the Special Abilities area, not the spell.

Like many things in the game, there's more than one section of the rules that describes it, and sadly they don't always agree.