3.5 Scoops Discussion

[Shard O'Glase]

disapointed with this, animate objects not added to the Wiz/sor list. It is far more appropriate to the wiz/sor list than the cleric list. Having it the cleric list I can accept, because clerics get lots of non appropriate spells and I'm used to it by now, but to still now put it on the wiz/sor list is lame.

 

[bret]

Rogue changes

Originally posted by ShadowStar
Uncanny Dodge (L4) and Improved Uncanny Dodge (L8) work just like the 1st to levels of UD used to, trapsense has just been split off from it.

1: Sneak Attack (SA) +1d6, trapfinding
2: Evasion
3: SA +2d6, Trap Sense (TS) +1
4: Uncanny Dodge (Always recieve Dex bonus)
5: SA +3d6
6: TS +2
7: SA +4d6
8: Improved Uncanny Dodge (Can't be flanked)
9: SA +5d6, TS +3
10: Special Ability
11: SA +6d6
12: TS +4
13: SA +7d6, Special Ability
14:
15: SA +8d6, TS +5
16: Special Ability
17: SA +9d6
18: TS +6
19: SA +10d6, Special Ability
20:

It looks to me as if Uncanny Dodge requires a higher level than it did before. I think it used to come in at levels 3 and 6.

The rogue is heavily dependent on their Dex for AC. I don't understand why this was changed.

It appears to me that the Ranger is now the king of stealth and scouting. They can get Hide in Plain Sight, Camouflage, have almost as many skill points as a rogue, and better BAB and hit points.

Unless it is important for your character to find traps (something that I consider a truely thankless job), there is considerably less reason to take rogue.

The Trap Sense will help somewhat for the Rogue to survive a trap that goes off, and the bonus goes much higher than before, but I *really* don't find that much *fun*. All it does is reduce the chance of you surviving a failure, it doesn't make it any easier for you to defeat the trap.

[ Edit: Formatting and removing extraneous quoted text. ]

 

[Shard O'Glase]

shield spell still 1min/level is being a shield bonus and absorbing MM sthat much of a benefit over the armor bonus from mage armor for the 1hr/level to 1min/level difference? I don't think so, but hey maybe they knocked mage armor down to 10min/level or 1 min/level.

I don't mind shield getting knocked down a bit but why take it over mage armor ever? assuming mage armor is balanced, then shield now seems weak.

 

[JoeBlank]

Shadowstar says, on Paladins:

"They get Smite Evil 1/day at 1st level and don't get Divine Grace until 2nd. They don't get Remove Disease 1/week until 6th Level amd they get an additional Smite Evil/day every 5 levels (at 5th, 10th etc)." empahsis added

So say goodbye to the Paladin 1/Sorcerer X min-max.

I am surprised how many of the changes are geared towards discouraging only one level of a class, and encouraging staying with a single class. Although I like the 3e multiclassing rules, I am glad to see an effort made to prevent multi-multi-min-maxing.

Makes we wonder if the uncanny dodge stacking between barbarians and rogues is still there. Off to ask Roy and Shadowstar.

 

[Conaill]

So every one and his brother now get Craft (Alchemy)?

AAAARGH!

 

[Apok]

Re: Rogue changes

It appears to me that the Ranger is now the king of stealth and scouting. They can get Hide in Plain Sight, Camouflage, have almost as many skill points as a rogue, and better BAB and hit points.

In the Wilderness, yes. But anywhere else? I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that their HiPS and Camo abilities only work in natural settings. That won't help if you happen to be in an urban environment or a dungeon.

I'd say that, now, Rangers are as effective as Rogues, perhaps even moreso, at stealth and scouting in natural settings. This does not, however, invalidate the Rogue or his role in the party.

 

[JoeBlank]

I kind of like everyone being able to be Alchemists. Kind of an interesting hobby that fits for a Cleric, Druid, or even Monk, but even more curious for a Fighter or Paladin.

Hmmm, a Paladin alchemist, eventually taking brew potion.

 

[Apok]

shield spell still 1min/level is being a shield bonus and absorbing MM sthat much of a benefit over the armor bonus from mage armor for the 1hr/level to 1min/level difference? I don't think so, but hey maybe they knocked mage armor down to 10min/level or 1 min/level.

I don't mind shield getting knocked down a bit but why take it over mage armor ever? assuming mage armor is balanced, then shield now seems weak.

Both of them still stack, so while Mage Armor will last most of the day, Shield is good for that extra kick. I think the idea was to make neither one leagues better than the other, but in conjunction they rock on toast.

 

[coyote6]

Re: Rogue changes

It looks to me as if Uncanny Dodge requires a higher level than it did before. I think it used to come in at levels 3 and 6.

The rogue is heavily dependent on their Dex for AC. I don't understand why this was changed.

I'd guess that it was changed to make multiclassing to rogue to get UD less attractive.

Also, Trap Sense is gives a bonus of level/3; leaving UD at 3rd level would make Rogue 3 pretty heavily loaded (extra die of sneak attack, Trap Sense +1, UD). So they could either push UD up to second level -- which would make a couple of levels of rogue pretty attractive, what with +1d6 SA, trapfinding, UD, and evasion -- or push it back to 4th, and discourage multiclassing just to cherrypick abilities.

Now we'll all have to rely on prestige classes to cherrypick our abilities from.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Both of them still stack, so while Mage Armor will last most of the day, Shield is good for that extra kick. I think the idea was to make neither one leagues better than the other, but in conjunction they rock on toast.

the thing is I think the hour/level makes mage armor leagues better. the stacking is nice if shield bonuses stack with amge armor in 3e they didn't, and then still both these spells get phased out quickly as the players pick up bracers of armor and mithral bucklers. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on peoples opinion of the role of lower level spells in medium to high level games.