3.5 Scoops Discussion

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Discuss RoytheOdd/Shadowstar's scoops here!


Two weapon Defense: definitely a strengthening of TWF. You can have all your extra attacks, and have the benefit of a small shield, too -- without the armor check penalty! 2-handers got an improved Power Attack, what are the regular sword-and-boarders to do?

Sorcerer spell swaps: guess it's only one spell at each level. That's a nice feature, and balances nicely (though not as flavorful as thematic spell chains, but that would require reworking the whole mechanics).

 

[Nightfall]

I do hope Star was wrong about specialization. Sure a +2 to spellcraft checks is fine. but the fact you have to pick TWO schools AND it can't be divination?! What the heck?!

 

[Number47]

I don't think I have heard or seen a single thing yet that I dislike. Some things I am only neutral about, but most I think are great.

The improvement of Power Attack doesn't really bug me. I always thought it was a fairly lame feat, only useful in certain situations. I like the Two Weapon Defense. That and Dodge should really help out the swashbuckler types without cutting into their damage-dealing. I have to agree that the sword-and-board seem to have gotten the short end. Can't say yet. Might be more value to better ACs under the revision.

I am just itching to find out more about the bard. Apparently they have a few more bardic music abilities. What were they again, song of freedom, mass suggestion, something else?

 

[Number47]

I do hope Star was wrong about specialization. Sure a +2 to spellcraft checks is fine. but the fact you have to pick TWO schools AND it can't be divination?! What the heck?!

I don't think he meant that all you get is the +2. Probably means you get that in addition to your extra spell slot. In that case, I am totally fine with the revision. More sensible. Shouldn't be a big problem if they filled out all the schools as much as was promised.

 

[Nightfall]

47, Alright look here. If I'm a single classed Necromaner, why the heck should I not make Divination a prohibited school? That's what I'm getting it. Why is Divination not getting to be a prohibited school if you can select others?

[Editor's note: here's what he said in response to that question:

Wizards who Specialize gain +2 on Spellcraft checks when dealing with their school and have to choose 2 other schools (any to) that they will be unable to use. They cannot however choose Divination.

Now what sense do THAT make?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I suspect the change to school specialization choices came about because all schools are not created equal (Divination being arguably the weakest). 'Course this means Diviners (my favorite specialist) get hurt the worst. Edit: still seems a little harsh for some schools, though (no argument for Evocation).

I'm wondering what the final balance will be between the TWF and sword-and-board guy. TWF now burns 2 feats, and he's -2 to his attacks, but only -1 AC behind mister sword-and-board, doing the same damage with the one weapon (though overall expectation is reduced with the reduced chance to hit), plus the chance to do extra damage with the off-hand weapon. I guess it probably evens out, in the end.

Dwarven fighters and clerics just got more fun (15 move in heavy armor sucks!). Not to mention the dwarven ranger, dual wielding dwarven waraxe and throwing axe, taking all the TWF feats ... fun!

 

[Number47]

For balance. Any munchkin worth his cheetohs would take Divination as an opposed school. You can't blast anything with Divination!

 

[Nightfall]

I suspect the change to school specialization choices came about because all schools are not created equal (Divination being arguably the weakest). 'Course this means Diviners (my favorite specialist) get hurt the worst.

Originally posted by Olgar Shiverstone

No offense Olgar, but so what? Necromancy doesn't have that many powerful spells at 3rd level compared to evocation or even transmutation. My point is simply if I want to specialize why shouldn't I pick Divination if I all want to learn is Necromancy spells. It doesn't make sense.

As for the idea it brings balance, that maybe but all it does is penalize guys that don't want to have every fighter come along and say "Cast Identify!" Or "Cast Invisibility!". My point is while improving specialization is nice, this is HARDLY the way to do it.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

As for the idea it brings balance, that maybe but all it does is penalize guys that don't want to have every fighter come along and say "Cast Identify!" Or "Cast Invisibility!". My point is while improving specialization is nice, this is HARDLY the way to do it. [/B]

I think I agree with you. The schools aren't created equal -- and this effectively treats them all equally (except divination, which can't be ignored, for whatever reason).

I was hoping for a move more like the mechanics in HOHF:Elves, which assigned a point value to each school -- by specializing, you had to prohibit an equal point value of schools, but you could restrict any of them.

Maybe someone else can share a good argument in favor; right now I'm kind of

 

[Nightfall]

All I'm suggesting is we used the old 2nd edition method, 3.5 style. Keep the "You must choose two schools" approach. But lose the fact Divination isn't an option. That just doesn't fly with me. Besides I've had specialist wizards in my 3.0 games. So far I don't notice a difference between them in terms of spell power. (For the most part.)