3.5 Scoops Discussion

[ShadowStar]

What, no Leap of the clouds?

You know, I answered your question in the other thread out of memory and now looking at it there is not longer a Leap of the Clouds. Before I had gotten it confused with Abundant Step.

 

[chalcedony]

Bards

Just wanna talk about the Bard spell list...
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53115&perpage=40&pagenumber=7

I was very happy about all the beefing up they gave the Bard according to Shadow (inspire courage gets better, new songs, 6 skill points, ASF reduction), but I was a bit surprised when I saw the new spell list. They have glibness, heroism, and a few other spells I hadn't seen before.

I'm making a guess that these spells are now the prereqs of the glibness and heroism potions. Which is kinda bad for a Bard who takes the Brew Potion feat. They already suffer heavy gp and xp penalties compared to wizards and clerics, and now some of the best potions require spell prereqs. And of course everyone knows we can't change our spells as we like (even with the spell-swapping thing), so most bards can forget about taking Brew Potion at all now.

Just hope the clerics get those spells too...


And what's this? Where's the level 3 Emotion spell? Don't tell me they've taken it away! All I see is "Good Hope" and "Crushing Despair". Wind Wall is missing too!

 

[Storm Raven]

Re: Bards

I was very happy about all the beefing up they gave the Bard according to Shadow (inspire courage gets better, new songs, 6 skill points, ASF reduction), but I was a bit surprised when I saw the new spell list. They have glibness, heroism, and a few other spells I hadn't seen before.

Those spells are probably to make up for the bard "losing" magic missile from their spell list

This sort of quote worries me, Dragon 309, pag 16: "Some spellcasters lost spells vecause they didn't fit their archetype (badrs casting magic missile just seemed strange to a lot of people) . . ."

If Ed Stark is ignorant enough about the actual rules of 3.0 that he thinks that bards could cast magic missile then he has no business ever being anywhere near a rules revision for the game. The fact that such an inane and blatantly incorrect statement about soemthing as basic as the 1st level spell list for a core class made it into his article and through the proofreading and editing process indicates to me that WotC has a lot of people who don't know the rules very well working on the revision.

I am not filled with confidence. If you are working on a revision to the existing rules you should get the basic existing rules right. Otherwise, you are unqualified to be tinkering. Like Monte Cook, I think I will not be incorporating much, if anything, from 3.5 if this is the sort of quality we can expect.

 

[Staffan]

Did you see the Call Lightning revision?

That spell is insane!

"It's casting time is 1 Round and it lasts 1 minute/level. You can call 1 bolt/round that does 3d6 Damage, if there is already a storm the bolts do 3d10 damage."

150d10 over time at 5th level?

Don't annoy the Druid on a cloudy day.

If you read the spell description a bit more, you'll see that you only get one bolt per level (max 10) out of it. It's just that you don't have to use them all at once.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

heck even if it didn't cap out the bolts it wouldn't bother me. 3d6 or 3d10 whopedee do. If your resorting to 3d10 attacks your pretty screwed.

 

[Conaill]

I kind of like everyone being able to be Alchemists. Kind of an interesting hobby that fits for a Cleric, Druid, or even Monk, but even more curious for a Fighter or Paladin.

Oh, I don't mind everybody being able to do Alchemy. I thought restricted skills were a bad idea anyway. I do mind that everybody now gets Alchemy as a class skill!!!

Now where's the sense in *that*?

What "problem" were they trying to fix with that anyway? The fact that some people were confused that Alchemy said "see Craft skill" for the mechanism? They could *easily* have clarified that without making every single commoner an Alchemist. Sigh...

I like 3.5 overall, but some of the changes are just plain stupid!

 

[Fenes 2]

What "problem" were they trying to fix with that anyway? The fact that some people were confused that Alchemy said "see Craft skill" for the mechanism? They could *easily* have clarified that without making every single commoner an Alchemist. Sigh...

Now that is no problem at all. The DM controls what skills the NPCs in his or her world have, and nowhere is it written that every commoner has to be an alchemist.

 

[chalcedony]

Dragon 309, pag 16: "Some spellcasters lost spells vecause they didn't fit their archetype (bards casting magic missile just seemed strange to a lot of people) . . ."

Well I've heard that somewhere before, and am actually quite willing to put it aside as a mistake , but Emotion was the best level 3 Bard spell IMHO. So versatile, and who's to say that it doesn't fit a Bard? Splitting it into Crushing Despair and Good Hope (what kinda name is that?) just strains the Bard, who at level ten only knows four level 3 spells, and can cast but a pitiful 3 per day.

Oh, I don't mind everybody being able to do Alchemy. I thought restricted skills were a bad idea anyway. I do mind that everybody now gets Alchemy as a class skill!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I know it's not so much that Alchemy is given to everyone as a class skill, but that Craft itself is a class skill (?), and can be branched into Alchemy.

It's not as outrageous as it sounds. Most classes, e.g. Fighters and Barbarians, don't have that many skill points anyway. Sure, they could *try* to max out their Alchemy, but they'll just be booed by their comrades when they can't jump over that ridge or climb a simple wall . Rangers, rogues, bards, wizards, sorcerers and clerics knowing alchemy isn't quite a leap of logic.

 

[drnuncheon]

Well I've heard that somewhere before, and am actually quite willing to put it aside as a mistake , but Emotion was the best level 3 Bard spell IMHO. So versatile, and who's to say that it doesn't fit a Bard? Splitting it into Crushing Despair and Good Hope (what kinda name is that?) just strains the Bard, who at level ten only knows four level 3 spells, and can cast but a pitiful 3 per day.

Have you considered that emotion may not be in 3Rev at all? It was very versatile - possibly too versatile, if it was split up.

Also, to put things in perspective, the sorcerer at tenth level only knows three level 3 spells...

J
Oh, and good hope obviously begs to be put into some kind of overgarment. A coat, maybe, or a cloak...hmm. Almost, but not quite...

 

[youspoonybard]

If you read the spell description a bit more, you'll see that you only get one bolt per level (max 10) out of it. It's just that you don't have to use them all at once.

Ah, thanks. Still, it's powerful, resources wise.

It only takes one spell slot, and does a lot of damage. True, not at one time, but let's compare:

5th level wizard = needs 3 Fireballs to do 15d6 damage.

5th level druid = needs 1 call lightning to do 15d6 (possibly 15d10) damage.

While the discrepancy in damage dealt goes in favor of the wizard eventually as he levels, it's still only one spell slot. It reminds me of flame blade or flaming sphere.


*edit* Rereading the post, I see 1bolt/round, not level. Is there something i'm missing?

And, at the time, the fighter has 1 or 2 attacks. I'd say 3d6 is easily comprable to one fighter attack, and 3d10 is way better.

It's a good spell.