D&D 3E/3.5 3.5 Shooting/Throwing into melee and missing....

[plunoir101]

Hiya
So I've always made Ad Hoc rules when a character misses a shot like this depending on the situation, but i was wondering if anyone here had or knew of a chart or rule that would make missing a shot like this more interesting or more dangerous.
Just Curious

 

[Dandu]

Oh, missing the target and hitting your friends is sure to incur so much fun at the local gaming table!

For the sake of realism in a game that involves giant flying magical firebreathing lizards, of course.

 

[Jon_Dahl]

Well, I agree with Dandu on this one. BUT it's always nice to have rules for everything. Like if you play a silly one-shot where everyone has evil characters and the whole game is more or less PvP then it's nice to have some rules for missed shots when characters are fighting in melee.

First of all, the -4 penalty for firing into melee is pretty massive. It's almost like shooting blind. So it means that really absolutely definitely watch out for your friends. Missing the shot makes no difference.

However if you forgo that penalty, you still hit your target with 75% chance and someone else in melee with 25% chance. Look at rules regarding bullrushing:

Any attack of opportunity made by anyone other than the defender against you during a bull rush has a 25% chance of accidentally targeting the defender instead, and any attack of opportunity by anyone other than you against the defender likewise has a 25% chance of accidentally targeting you.

So if you forgo the -4 penalty, just go with those. Simple as that.

 

[TKDB]

Oh, missing the target and hitting your friends is sure to incur so much fun at the local gaming table!

In my experience, it actually is rather amusing. But we usually only do it on a nat 1; I imagine it would get really old, really fast if you let it happen on conventional misses.

 

[Aluvial]

Here is a house rule that I made up for my 3.x campaign. My group has been using this rule for ten years or so.

Firing Into Melee. There are two ways to fire into melee: carefully and carelessly. In either case, an attack roll of a natural 1 is subject to a Fumble Check. Also, in either case, if a creature provides cover to the target creature and you roll within the bonus provided by the covering creature, you roll again against its normal AC to see if you hit.

If you fire carefully, you are -4 to hit as per the PHB, and can only accidentally hit a creature if it provides cover to the creature you are targeting.

If you fire carelessly, you do not take the -4 penalty, but if you roll a natural 1 through 4, you have a chance to hit a random creature within the target area (even if the modified roll would have normally hit the creature). A natural roll of 1 is subject to both the Fumble Check and the random hit. The DM rolls to determine which creature adjacent to the target might get hit. The attacker immediately rolls another attack roll against that creature’s AC. Again, cover applies.

Note: It is possible that another 1 to 4 could be rolled against the new target, and then you would start the process of determining the random adjacent target again. If this happens, it is possible that you could get the shot back at the original target!

The Feat, Precise Shot, if used, negates the choice of firing carefully or carelessly.

The default is firing carelessly unless you announce otherwise.

Recovering Arrows. 25% of Magical Arrows that are fired and miss their target can be gathered (if possible) and reused. Any non-magical arrows that hit are no longer useable, as per the PHB. 50% of any missed, non-magical arrows can be recovered after combat (again, if possible).

I want to pre- defend the complexity of this house rule. I have found that, by the mid levels (7 on up), unless you are outdoors (or in a big cavern complex), the only characters that use missile weapons, are characters that take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot anyway. Other instances of this rule coming into play usually involve a ranged touch attack with a spell, or where there are 30+ low-level opponents peppering the PC's with sling stones or arrow fire.

When it does come up, most characters fire carelessly, and then if they roll the 1 to 4, the DM determines the random target. The reroll rarely comes up bad again (20%), and when it does, the odd shot seems to engage the players as we roll lots of dice trying to figure out just where the arrow went. While this does slow play some, I find that in use, it is usually quicker than adjudicating some spell effects.

I have had more than one occassion where the bad/low roll happens twice, the arrow hits the original intended target, and then even ends up critting it with the rerolled attack. I think this is fine and for comparison, I have built into all of my Fumble charts: melee, ranged, and magic, a chance for the 1 to actually be a critical hit, but with some mishap to the roller.

The biggest challenge for the players is dealing with multiple covers. For example, if the target's AC is 18 (T below) and there are two sources of cover (C and C1) between the shooter (S) and his target, the closest cover to the shooter is hit on a 18-21 (C1). The next farther source of cover (C) is hit on a 22-25, while you need a 26 to hit the original target. Remember that the roll might only potentially hit cover, and only if the roll overcomes the cover's AC.

Example positions:
T.......C........C1...........S

To complicate things even further, I add a creature's AC bonus in layers, with the base 10 being on the inside, then adding natural armor, then armor, then shield, then deflection or other effects. I add Dex bonuses at the end only to be surpassed by any Dodge bonuses. This means that if you actually hit cover on a ranged attack, the cover's AC (and Dex and Dodge) comes into play. If you beat the cover's AC, then it is a normal hit on the cover, but if it is a "hit" within the cover's Dodge and Dex bonuses, then the cover, if able, can elect to either to take the hit, or to have the attack miss them. This in turn means that the cover was NOT struck, and the attack slides through to the original target with its cover AC reduced by the Dodge and Dex bonuses, up to the original +4 cover!

In the example above, "C1" has an AC of 19, is Dodging the shooter, and has a +2 Dex modifier. If the shooter rolls a 21 against the target, he hits C1 as cover, as C1's AC is a 20 vs. the shooter (19+1 for Dodge). If the shooter rolls an 18, 19, or 20 though, C1 is given the choice to avoid the attack. If C1 does elect to avoid, the the attack moves to "C". Let say that C has an AC of 22, with a Dex bonus of +5. Now, if or when C1 elects to avoid shots on attacks from 19-21, C can also elect to avoid these shots because they fall within his Dex bonus. On rolls of 20 down to 18, C can decide whether he takes the hit or not. If he chooses to take the hit as cover, he blocks the shot from hitting the target, but still takes no damage as it wouldn't surpass his AC. If on the other hand C elects to avoid on those rolls (18-20), then the original target is still hit!

Basically, If our shooter attacks with something up to an 17, he misses everything, on a 18-20, hits the original target (if C1 first, and then C, both elect to dodge), hits C1 on a 21, hits the target on a 22 (if C elects to dodge), hits C on a 23-25, and hits the original target on a 26 and higher.

Ahh, archery. Such a joy to behold.

Aluvial

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

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[Empirate]

In my experience, it actually is rather amusing. But we usually only do it on a nat 1; I imagine it would get really old, really fast if you let it happen on conventional misses.

In my experience, it is horrible. For players and DMs alike. YMMV, of course, but I'll posit the following:

1. ranged combat styles are bad enough as is in 3.5. You don't want to nerf them even further.

2. PCs hurting other PCs is never a good idea where group dynamics are concerned.

3. Critical fumble rules are a surefire way to introduce even more stochastics-induced chaos into the already heavily haywire roll results of the mighty d20. This sucks at low levels and still comes into play at mid levels.

4. Critical fumble rules are also a surefire way to punish the players for running recurring characters (AKA PCs). Iterative probability means PCs will encounter the critical fumble in their lifespan. Most monsters won't, or won't care much, since they're in the game to die anyway.

5. "Only" on a natural 1 can equal up to roughly every other combat: combat usually lasts around 5 rounds, archers can usually attack at least twice/round (even at low level due to Rapid Shot), and shooting into melee will almost all the time be your most useful option anyway (since it's better to down one enemy fast, so pick the already engaged one).

 

[holyplankton]

On page 158 of the Player's Handbook is a chart showing what happens when you miss with a thrown weapon. Apparently you're supposed to roll a d8 with the numbers 1-8 corresponding with a square surrounding the target.

I would think this could be applied to missile weapons with a d4, using 1 as missing above the target, 2 falling short, 3 missing left, and 4 missing right. Thinking on it further, you could probably still use a d8, just use up to 2 squares in each direction. 1-2 misses high by 1 or 2 squares; 3-4 falls short by 5-10 ft.; 5-6 misses 5-10 ft. to the left; 7-8 misses 5-10 ft. to the right.

 

[Nebten]

On page 158 of the Player's Handbook is a chart showing what happens when you miss with a thrown weapon. Apparently you're supposed to roll a d8 with the numbers 1-8 corresponding with a square surrounding the target.

I would think this could be applied to missile weapons with a d4, using 1 as missing above the target, 2 falling short, 3 missing left, and 4 missing right. Thinking on it further, you could probably still use a d8, just use up to 2 squares in each direction. 1-2 misses high by 1 or 2 squares; 3-4 falls short by 5-10 ft.; 5-6 misses 5-10 ft. to the left; 7-8 misses 5-10 ft. to the right.

This is for Thrown Splash Weapons, such as an acid flask or alchemists fire. This is not the same as thrown ranged weapons, such as throwing a dagger or a hand axe.

Sadly what you are proposing is just a lot of dice rolling to determine that you still missed the target. The reason that knowing where a splash weapon lands is that an area of effect condition (such as damage) could effect friends.

In short, nobody cares where the bullet goes if somebody misses the target, but everybody wants to know where that grenade is when it goes off.

 

[billd91]

3.5 dispensed with the chances of hitting allies firing into melee and I think, in part, it's worse for it. Ranged combat, I think, becomes a little too useful as a result.
D&D development under WotC has been too focused around removing unfortunate but predictable consequences for too many actions. The safety of allies when shooting into melee is one, the ease of casting spells without disruption is another. Small wonder that, relatively speaking, the melee fighter is increasingly left swinging in the breeze bearing the brunt of real consequences in a fight while everyone else skates by.