D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Stealthy Spell Casting

[radmod]

really? Only thing i have found is the 3.0 text on a web page.

Really what?
Yes, really, elves don't sleep. That's core - straight from the PH p. 15, right column, 2nd paragraph of Physical Description. Word for word of what you have. I thought everyone knew that. That's from 1e onward.
Yes, really, I don't recall 'trance' ever being defined.
Yes, really, I seem to recall reading somewhere that it said something like "when in a trance, elves are aware of their surroundings." It could've been core, a Dragon/Dungeon mag, or somewhere else.

 

[radmod]

Let's see...

Assuming a CdG counts as "a battle", then the base DC is -10, and sleeping characters have a ten-point penalty to Listen... which means you need a negative Listen check to fail on a roll of 1.

However, if the cleric dumps his armor, and takes ten walking away, the DC to hear him is 10+His Dex mod. The sleeping characters have a ten point penalty, so they basically need to make a Listen check of 20. Walk far enough that the distance penalty makes waking up on the Listen check basically impossible, cast the spell over the party, go back as loudly as you please, and begin slashing throats.

I, personally, don't buy a CdG as a 'battle'. I might give the PC a move silently and modify the listen accordingly, but that's all house.

Wouldn't the Cleric dumping his armor be perhaps an even lower DC? And it takes awhile (1 min.) I could wear some jingling shirt and slowly walk to try to hide the sound, but it becomes harder, IMO, if I take it off.

A '1' is not a fail on a skill check. If the DC is less than one, the PC automatically succeeds (unless it has negatives). So, in this case, a PC rolling a 1 would become a -9 which is still higher than -10.

EDIT: changed higher to lower, oops.

This is how I would adjudicate it (just my opinion):
Logically, when standing watch you really aren't standing, but walking around. So by RAW characters would be waking up all the time and complaining. Instead, just like I am inured to certain sounds in the middle of the night, PCs would be inured to a PC walking around during watch.
So, if the Cleric moves away to cast the spell, I wouldn't even give a Listen check for the move. The spell, yes.
If the Cleric approaches a PC, then I would give the PC one, and only one, Listen check to be aware of the Cleric in proximity.
If they wake, I would give the Cleric a surprise round, followed by normal initiative. Following Listen checks would be based on battle.
If they didn't wake, I would give the Cleric a CdG. If he specifically mentioned he was being stealthy, I would allow him to take 10 on a Move Silently. Otherwise, I would go for a regular MS. In either case, I would give a Listen check for the CdG to be the MS - 10 with a small weapon. If the guy is bashing or hacking, I would make it the standard battle sound.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Yes, really, I seem to recall reading somewhere that it said something like "when in a trance, elves are aware of their surroundings." It could've been core, a Dragon/Dungeon mag, or somewhere else.

Please let us know if you find it. I've checked the 3.0 and 3.5 FAQs and Races of the Wild, and there's nothing about it there.

In my games, I treat trance the same as sleep for mechanical purposes, so elves are no more aware of their surroundings when trancing than humans are when sleeping. (I also give the full benefit to arcane casters; none of that "elven wizards have to trance for 4 hours and then 'rest their minds' for another 4 hours before they can prepare spells" stuff in my games.)

 

[radmod]

Please let us know if you find it. I've checked the 3.0 and 3.5 FAQs and Races of the Wild, and there's nothing about it there.

In my games, I treat trance the same as sleep for mechanical purposes, so elves are no more aware of their surroundings when trancing than humans are when sleeping. (I also give the full benefit to arcane casters; none of that "elven wizards have to trance for 4 hours and then 'rest their minds' for another 4 hours before they can prepare spells" stuff in my games.)

I wish I could tell you - it's bugging me. I thought about it, and I think a player pointed it out to me when looking at various elf types. So while I remember it saying something like "they don't sleep ... they trance ... and are aware of their surroundings" it might have been in that specific elf's description. Why that description had it and no other I wouldn't know.

Since the sleeping penalty is -10 on Listen, do you do that for entranced?
I give them the -5 for distracted.

Oh, BTW, the elven trance is considered to be equivalent to 8 hours of sleep which is all the rest you need. I can't tell you the number of times in earlier D&D that players tried to convince me that since elves didn't sleep they didn't need to rest for at least some time.

Interesting, 4e specifically says some are aware of their surroundings, but I don't do 4e.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Since the sleeping penalty is -10 on Listen, do you do that for entranced?

Yes. Just about the only mechanical difference I make between trancing and sleeping is that I allow elves to trance sitting up, so they aren't prone when they "wake up."

Oh, BTW, the elven trance is considered to be equivalent to 8 hours of sleep which is all the rest you need.

That depends on what you need the rest for. The 3.5 FAQ says that even if, for some reason (like you're wearing a ring of sustenance or you're an elf), you don't have to sleep for 8 hours, you still have to rest for 8 hours before you can prepare arcane spells.

I, personally, think that's daft, and don't follow the FAQ. But it's the most "official" word I know of on the subject.