D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Treant Crusader with Sword in a grapple

[Particle_Man]

Ok, here's where it gets a little crazy. Reincarnation on a home-brew table can get that way sometimes.

I have a strength 32 Treant with Crusader class levels. I am using a greatsword that is two sizes too small, so it is a light weapon (and I have a -4 penalty on attack rolls). Normally my size mod gives me -2 on attack rolls, but in a grapple it instead is a +8).

In a grapple, I could just use my natural weapons and have two grapple checks at 31/31 (+11 str, +12 BAB, +8 size). Or, I could use the sword on one hand and use the free arm for a secondary natural weapon attack in the other. If I use the sword to attack, I have a -4 penalty for attacking while in the grapple. I also cannot use the secondary natural weapon attack to as an attack (because you cannot use two weapons to attack in a grapple), although I can use the secondary natural attack as a grapple for damage (and it is lethal damage, since it is a natural weapon attack).

So, if I am in a grapple, and use the sword to attack, I have a +1 (magic sword), +12 (BAB), +11 (str), -2 (Huge sized Treant), -4 (two sizes too small), -4 (attacking while in a grapple) for a total of 14 (plus two iterative sword attacks at 9 and at 4). In addition, I get the now secondary natural weapon grapple attack from the free arm, at +12 (BAB), +11 (str), +8 (Huge sized Treant), -5 (secondary natural weapon), for a total of 26.
The sword will get the full str bonus to damage (+11), but the natural attack will only get half the bonus (+5). I am assuming that I cannot use crusader strikes while in a grapple as they take a standard action, but that crusader stances and boosts (which take swift actions to activate) are still ok to use. This assumes that one can use swift actions while in a grapple.

If, on the other hand, I just use the two natural weapons for "grapple for damage" grapple checks while grappling, then they will be primary, so I would get grapple checks at +12 (bab), +11 (str), +8 (huge sized treant) for a total of +31, and get the full primary natural attack strength bonus to damage at +11. I assume that the damage will be lethal since these are natural weapons, and that to make the damage non-lethal I would have to take a -4 penalty to the grapple check. I am also assuming that I could hold the sword in one hand while doing this (neither using nor needing to drop the sword), much like someone can wrap an arm around you in a grapple, while holding (but not using) a dagger in their hand.

(gasps for breath)

Does this sound about right? Am I getting something wrong or missing something?

 

[Dandu]

I am using a greatsword that is two sizes too small, so it is a light weapon (and I have a -4 penalty on attack rolls).

Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5?

 

[Particle_Man]

3.5 Am I doing it wrong? It is a 2-handed weapon for medium creatures, so a 1-handed weapon for large creatures and a light weapon for huge creatures, and two iterations of the -2 attack roll penalty for being two sizes "wrong" (for a total of -4 on the attack roll).

Eventually I will either get a huge weapon or get a "sizing" magical modifier to the sword, but for now I am going with what I have. I got a huge sling because those are dirt cheap.

From the hypertext d20 srd:
Weapons :: d20srd.org

"Inappropriately Sized Weapons

A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.

The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all."

 

[Dandu]

I remember the rules being slightly different between editions, so I thought I'd ask.

 

[frankthedm]

Rules of the Game: All About Grappling (Part Four) i don't know if the link will help, but it is something.

google search = site:enworld.org grappling natural weapons

 

[Particle_Man]

After reading those articles I think I have been doing it wrong.

So, in a grapple I can either go with attacks, in which case I take the -4 penalty to hit as above, or I can grapple for damage, in which case I use BAB-based iterative attacks only (31/26/21), no bonus attacks for extra natural weapons, and do nonlethal damage of an unarmed strike based on size only, so 1d6 (huge size) + 11 (str).

Thanks, Frankthedm.

(You know, maybe my DM and I will just pinkie-swear to never grapple anything, ever. This is getting complicated).