Dark Psion
First Post
You can't use the Metric system because it is too modern and Sci-Fi oriented, you know like Psionics 
We should be using Cubits, Roman Numerals and Stones.
We should be using Cubits, Roman Numerals and Stones.
(3.5E) Aw, crap...
- Thread starter Mouseferatu
- Start date
Mercule
Adventurer
I honestly can't fathom how people can say that minis slow down play. (I believe you when you say it does for you, I just can't see how.)
The major reason I use minis (dice, actually) is because it makes the game flow so much faster. No one has to ask "Can I make it to the troll and attack?" or "Are the orcs standing close enough to get an AoO if I run between them?" or anything similar.
It's all right there in front of them. I can get on with running the interesting parts of the game.
It's pretty much the same thing as when I hear complaints about how rules-intensive or power-gamerish 3E is. To me, it's just a system that fits together well. I don't have to worry about a whole bunch of broken rules. I can just deal with the story.
On that last note, BTW, I'd like to say "Good job!" to Monte and the others. No system is perfect, but you guys did a bunch to clean it up and make it flow.
The major reason I use minis (dice, actually) is because it makes the game flow so much faster. No one has to ask "Can I make it to the troll and attack?" or "Are the orcs standing close enough to get an AoO if I run between them?" or anything similar.
It's all right there in front of them. I can get on with running the interesting parts of the game.
It's pretty much the same thing as when I hear complaints about how rules-intensive or power-gamerish 3E is. To me, it's just a system that fits together well. I don't have to worry about a whole bunch of broken rules. I can just deal with the story.
On that last note, BTW, I'd like to say "Good job!" to Monte and the others. No system is perfect, but you guys did a bunch to clean it up and make it flow.
Illuminae
First Post
Monte At Home said:
PLEASE, PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE!!!!
PLLLLLLLLLLLEASE!!!!!!!!
(Now, Monte, don´t you dare resist my on-line Roger Rabbit impression!)
I am about to create a thread like this, not to question mini use, but to gather ideas for effective use of the system without them.
Mostly beacuse I DO like them, but many times find them standing on the way to suspension of disbelief... Personal thing...
I realized sometimes I can´t see all the limitless options my characters have when i am looking at minis...even though I one of the minis-make-combat-easier crowd.
I'm am right with the original poster.
We don't use mini's either. If this was truly a revised, you think they would have listened to the people who hated how miniaturized the first one was.
I think they should have included both.
And since they aren't.... I guess I won't be picking them up, and I really want to.
Razuur
We don't use mini's either. If this was truly a revised, you think they would have listened to the people who hated how miniaturized the first one was.
I think they should have included both.
And since they aren't.... I guess I won't be picking them up, and I really want to.
Razuur
I have to admit that I didn't read every last post in this thread. I guess that means I won't be offended if you skip mine. Appologies and credit where it is due, if I'm repeating what someone else posted.
And it did turn out to be a great game, IMO. But I think, on occassion, the clarity of the writing suffered in the fence-sitting. The Attack of Opportunity rules in particular seem to be designed for miniatures (or Counters, or whatever) yet because they are written more abstractly they come accross as rather unfocused and unclear to the newcomer.
"When a combatant moves out of a threatened square, she usually provokes an Attack of Opportunity."
is much more conceptually clear than:
"If a combatant moves through (not simply into) or out of a threatened area, a combatant usually provokes an attack of opportunity."
Even if you don't end up using minis you can explain the concept much more concisely and precisely if you use a grid in your examples. People can ignore the grid for all other purposes (like everyone does when determining the straight line of a charge* ) and it will work the same.
Cheers
*Player's do ignore the grid lines when determining a straight line for a charge, don't they?
MT
Monte At Home said:
And it did turn out to be a great game, IMO. But I think, on occassion, the clarity of the writing suffered in the fence-sitting. The Attack of Opportunity rules in particular seem to be designed for miniatures (or Counters, or whatever) yet because they are written more abstractly they come accross as rather unfocused and unclear to the newcomer.
"When a combatant moves out of a threatened square, she usually provokes an Attack of Opportunity."
is much more conceptually clear than:
"If a combatant moves through (not simply into) or out of a threatened area, a combatant usually provokes an attack of opportunity."
Even if you don't end up using minis you can explain the concept much more concisely and precisely if you use a grid in your examples. People can ignore the grid for all other purposes (like everyone does when determining the straight line of a charge* ) and it will work the same.
Cheers
*Player's do ignore the grid lines when determining a straight line for a charge, don't they?
MT
buzz
Adventurer
mouseferatu said:
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the changes WotC are going to make will amount to little more than featuring pictures of their new minis line in the AoO diagrams. If it's anything more than that, it'll be a sidebar on how to integrate the rules for the collectible minis game into your D&D game.
I.e., it'll be akin to the few bits in the SW RCR that mention using action figures instead of minis (and said action figures are made by... Hasbro!). The game will be fundamentally unchanged.
This is much ado about nothing. Wait till the books come out, and then complain.
The Little Raven
First Post
Minis, Battlemats, and Grids (Oh My!)
The revised edition of the 3rd Edition D&D will focus more heavily on miniatures than before. However, this will be to primarily fix up all the discrepancies that have cropped up primarily due to the description of powers and spells. Now, all spells and powers will be able to align neatly with the "grid," so that there are no arguments about who is hit by certain effects, due to half a square's spacing and such.
All the movement, facing, and square control are being rewritten and revised to make combat flow more effectively, as well as to clear up certain problems that have been seen. For example, a centaur (5x10) is facing due west, and turns due north. According to the normal 3e rules, this is basically a 5-ft step, which can be fit into an action for free... however, if you break down the exact movement that the centaur must perform, it is actually 10 feet. This was a big source of argument between my other DM and I. He thinks the centaur can turn due north as a 5-ft and attack fully, whereas I believe it must move 10 feet, and only gain a single attack. I believe it must move from (A) to (B) to (C), whereas he claims it must only move (A) to (C). This is one big thing revisions will take care of, as the difference between 1 attack and 4 attacks can mean life and death.
XX = Centaur
0 = Character
(A)
| | |0|
| | | |
|X|X| | (due west)
to
(B)
| | |0|
|X| | |
| |X| |
to
(C)
| | |0|
| |X| | (due
| |X| | north)
It will still be playable without the minis, but it will just be much easier with them.
The revised edition of the 3rd Edition D&D will focus more heavily on miniatures than before. However, this will be to primarily fix up all the discrepancies that have cropped up primarily due to the description of powers and spells. Now, all spells and powers will be able to align neatly with the "grid," so that there are no arguments about who is hit by certain effects, due to half a square's spacing and such.
All the movement, facing, and square control are being rewritten and revised to make combat flow more effectively, as well as to clear up certain problems that have been seen. For example, a centaur (5x10) is facing due west, and turns due north. According to the normal 3e rules, this is basically a 5-ft step, which can be fit into an action for free... however, if you break down the exact movement that the centaur must perform, it is actually 10 feet. This was a big source of argument between my other DM and I. He thinks the centaur can turn due north as a 5-ft and attack fully, whereas I believe it must move 10 feet, and only gain a single attack. I believe it must move from (A) to (B) to (C), whereas he claims it must only move (A) to (C). This is one big thing revisions will take care of, as the difference between 1 attack and 4 attacks can mean life and death.
XX = Centaur
0 = Character
(A)
| | |0|
| | | |
|X|X| | (due west)
to
(B)
| | |0|
|X| | |
| |X| |
to
(C)
| | |0|
| |X| | (due
| |X| | north)
It will still be playable without the minis, but it will just be much easier with them.
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