3-man Party without a Defender

[Tony Vargas]

The ranger and cleric both have the potential to be competent in melee - if they gravitate towards the STR build options (this is not the time for an archer or 'lazer' cleric). The wizard can help take care of himself by going with the staff implement and a good CON, and should make sure he always has a close attack on tap, as he won't be able to count on keeping out of melee.

Leaders and Defenders are both very useful to the party, but thier powers also leverage the party, so the smaller the party, the less payoff you get from some defender power and many leader powers. A very small party can probably get by with only one or the other (or a bit of both in the form of a Paladin), or even neither, and just adopt less usual tactics (being all very sneaky/mobile, and being selective about which encounters you stand and fight, for instance).

 

[Bhikku]

It's interesting to see the variety of responses to this issue. I'm actually facing a rather similar problem, only perhaps moreso: my PCs put together a party of three strikers - a two-weapon ranger, a trickster rogue, and a feylock. We were planning on a cleric, but he had to drop out, so... any suggestions for my encounter design or for their tactics?

I'm hoping the ranger can stand in for the defender to some degree and the warlock's curse/misty step combo will help him stay mobile enough to avoid getting squished - especially once he acquires a rod of corruption. I'm not really sure what advice to give the rogue, though.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[ExploderWizard]

join channel 4: LFG -need tank

On a more serious note, you will have to be very careful about what mixes of opponents to use. Published material will require a lot of modification to avoid constant TPK situations. You will probably have to take things slowly and develop a feel for what the group can handle.

Start off on the side of caution and use a larger number of weaker creatures rather than any heavy hitters. Low AC monsters with low to moderate damage dealing abilities is a good start. With only one striker and no defender you may want use more minions or perhaps lower the hp of standard monsters a bit. The striker can't afford to be tied up with one critter over multiple rounds (unless its a solo).

These type of problems have been around a long time. Games with an all rogue party in Lankhmar took some fiddling with to find out what worked. If the game can be scaled down to accomodate single player adventures then three should work just fine. Best of luck.

 

[Bhikku]

Hmm... I was planning on starting with a fight against a single Hobgoblin warcaster that everyone can focus on, possibly some goblin cutters to run interference, but because of circumstances the goblins would all be unarmed and unarmored. The next fight was going to have a four goblin minions and (IIRC) two warriors, one sharpshooter - again, they're unarmed and unarmored (also a bit drunk - the scenario has the PCs escaping from a holding cell and the first couple of fights are with off-duty goblins). My plan was for other encounters to focus on mainly small bands of goblins and a few skeletons (which I guess i'll have to scale down a level or two). That sounds pretty safe, right?

The biggest fight I've got planned is a level 3 solo, but I could easily downgrade him to a level 3 elite with a couple of zombie rotters - is that likely to work better, or worse for a group of strikers?

 

[frankthedm]

Rather than burdening yourself with more work trying to balance encounters for a critically small party, burden the players with an extra character each.

 

[DracoSuave]

Your group can do fine so long as they can tough out melee.

The clamor saying the Ranger needs to TWF doesn't take into account that TWF rangers have the worst AC in the game for player characters, and that toughness doesn't always make up for it.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

The clamor saying the Ranger needs to TWF doesn't take into account that TWF rangers have the worst AC in the game for player characters, and that toughness doesn't always make up for it.

A Str/Dex Ranger has a perfectly adequate AC, and is the basis for the Scimitar Dance Ranger/Stormwarden build.

 

[blargney the second]

Rather than burdening yourself with more work trying to balance encounters for a critically small party, burden the players with an extra character each.

That's a good point - even a single extra character would help a lot. If you've got one or two players who pick things up quickly, get them to take an extra PC.

 

[Tony Vargas]

my PCs put together a party of three strikers - a two-weapon ranger, a trickster rogue, and a feylock.

All these characters can be stealthy and mobile. They could succeed by aproaching adventuring differently from the normal party. Instead of forming a defender front line and grinding down the enemy while being kept going by a leader, they could stalk enemies, isolate them, and kill them one at a time. When you face too many enemies (and that could even be a 'fair' fight vs 3 monsters), you flee, and come at them later. Those three characters will also likely have good skills and a few powers that help in skill challenges - so those could play a larger part in adventures. Escaping from a horde of angry monsters can be handled as a skill challenge, and would be a very apropriate alternative to standing and fighting a horde of angry monsters like a typical party could.

What 3 strikers do really well is sneak up on one enemy and kill it fairly quickly. While this party would have trouble with a typical encounter with half a dozen or more enemies, including minions, they might do quite well against an equal-exp-value solo or an elite and one or two sidekicks (minions, perhaps, or dispatchable-in-one-round below-level creatures).

 

[Bhikku]

Thanks everybody, I appreciate the advice. I had been looking forward to big melees, but it sounds like focusing on boss & sidekick fights will be the way to go - I'll probably give 'em an ally at least for a while, too.

It sounds as though even groups of minions should be used sparingly, as the PCs' high damage attacks won't really count against 'em - but what about an encounter area that caters to superior mobility - like a fight that has combatants chasing each other through multiple rooms? The largest-scale fight I had planned had the PCs stumbling into the barracks or mess hall, so the goblins suddenly start running for the armory across the hall or else running around brandishing chair-legs. I've been hoping it will turn into a Scooby Doo chase scene as the combatants run from door to door, room to room, and across the hall, constantly trying to get the drop on their enemies and break mobs into smaller, more manageable groups. Their mobility should make this a reasonable encounter, right?

I guess if the players are being wary enough, they might even avoid the fight altogether, which would be pretty old-school.

(I'm sure it's obvious that I like encounters to be weird and memorable rather than slugfests - one of the things I like most about 4e is that plugging monsters into a fight is easy enough I can give all my attention to the fun stuff like this.)