3 questions

[Zen]

So here's the three things that the DM had to make a ruling on tonight: (good for him, kept the game going). Any info on how the RAW treats these situations would be appreciated.

1. Fear effect: My gnome wizard spooked an ogre with Cause Fear. The ogre had already moved that round. Does he run instantly, on the Wizard's turn, or does he have to wait until his turn comes around again in the order to flee?

2. Deific Vengeance: Our cleric cast Deific Vengeance (from Complete Divine) at the same ogre. The cleric is 3rd level, and this second level spell calls for 1d6 damage per two caster levels. So does a third level cleric get 1d6 damage or 2d6?

3. Lastly, we had snuck up on some orcs, who were in a clearing at the end of a trail. We could not see them, but we had heard their voices. We decided to draw them out. Our dwarf bard began beating his drum, alerting them to our presence. We lined up in the trail, missile weapons ready.

Now, do we have surprise (I didn't think so, as both sides are aware of each other), are we considered to have readied actions (again, I didn't think so because initiative had not been rolled) or is this a straight roll for initiative, and if the orcs win, they can double move and close the gap before we fire?

Sorry if these seem ridiculously easy to many of you, but all four of us were flummoxed, and no one had found specific rulings by game's end.

 

[Storm Raven]

So here's the three things that the DM had to make a ruling on tonight: (good for him, kept the game going). Any info on how the RAW treats these situations would be appreciated.

Okay.

1. Fear effect: My gnome wizard spooked an ogre with Cause Fear. The ogre had already moved that round. Does he run instantly, on the Wizard's turn, or does he have to wait until his turn comes around again in the order to flee?

The ogre moves on its own action.

2. Deific Vengeance: Our cleric cast Deific Vengeance (from Complete Divine) at the same ogre. The cleric is 3rd level, and this second level spell calls for 1d6 damage per two caster levels. So does a third level cleric get 1d6 damage or 2d6?

He's a third level caster, so he inflicts 2d6 damage. (Correction: he's a third level caster, so he inflicts 1d6 damage - 3/2 = 1.5 round down to 1).

3. Lastly, we had snuck up on some orcs, who were in a clearing at the end of a trail. We could not see them, but we had heard their voices. We decided to draw them out. Our dwarf bard began beating his drum, alerting them to our presence. We lined up in the trail, missile weapons ready.

Now, do we have surprise (I didn't think so, as both sides are aware of each other), are we considered to have readied actions (again, I didn't think so because initiative had not been rolled) or is this a straight roll for initiative, and if the orcs win, they can double move and close the gap before we fire?

Surprise is a judgment call, and in my judgment (were I DMing), there was no surprise here (or, if you had it, you used it by beating the drum). When to start "combat" and begin moving in initiative order is a judgment call. Were I DMing, I'd start combat as soon as the orcs realized that there was a foe about and get you into initative order. This would probably occur pretty much as soon as the dwarf began beating his drum. But, as I said before, when to start "combat" is a judgment call, and opinions may vary.

 

[Silveras]

1. Fear effect: My gnome wizard spooked an ogre with Cause Fear. The ogre had already moved that round. Does he run instantly, on the Wizard's turn, or does he have to wait until his turn comes around again in the order to flee?

Nothing in the spell grants the target extra actions. The Ogre does not move until it is its turn again. In the meantime, if it had allies, one of them could have done something like Remove Fear.

2. Deific Vengeance: Our cleric cast Deific Vengeance (from Complete Divine) at the same ogre. The cleric is 3rd level, and this second level spell calls for 1d6 damage per two caster levels. So does a third level cleric get 1d6 damage or 2d6?

Barring domain abilities, Caster Leve = Class level for Clerics; in this case, 3. The general rule is "round all fractions down" (see the Glossary in the 3.5 Players Handbook), 3/2 = 1.5, rounds down to 1d6.

3. Lastly, we had snuck up on some orcs, who were in a clearing at the end of a trail. We could not see them, but we had heard their voices. We decided to draw them out. Our dwarf bard began beating his drum, alerting them to our presence. We lined up in the trail, missile weapons ready.

Now, do we have surprise (I didn't think so, as both sides are aware of each other), are we considered to have readied actions (again, I didn't think so because initiative had not been rolled) or is this a straight roll for initiative, and if the orcs win, they can double move and close the gap before we fire?

It *sounds* like your party HAD surprise over the Orcs and used the time to prepare yourselves. At that point, when the Dwarf Bard "announced" your presence, it was time to roll initiative, as all actions after that should be resolved in initiative order. Likewise, that would be your "surprise round", in which each member of your party could declare a readied action to fire your weapon at an Orc when you saw one. After that, though, neither side is surprised and it is a matter of straight initiative.

The preceeding has been a matter of opinion; you will likely get others.

 

[gabrion]

This will mimic some of the answers already given, but meh....

1) He acts the following round.

2) 1d6. This one seems pretty clear and I don't see how it could be interpreted as 2d6.

3) The DMG lays out an example similar to this. If a creature is covering an area with a ranged weapon and someone comes through that area and is not yet aware then the archer would get a shot. If the character is aware, then initiative is rolled normally.

 

[Legildur]

1. Fear effect: My gnome wizard spooked an ogre with Cause Fear. The ogre had already moved that round. Does he run instantly, on the Wizard's turn, or does he have to wait until his turn comes around again in the order to flee?

I agree with Storm Raven - Ogre moves on his action.

2. Deific Vengeance: Our cleric cast Deific Vengeance (from Complete Divine) at the same ogre. The cleric is 3rd level, and this second level spell calls for 1d6 damage per two caster levels. So does a third level cleric get 1d6 damage or 2d6?

Here I disagree with Storm Raven (at least until I can check my books at home) (edit: Storm Raven revised his position - see next post). The spell starts as 1d6 at 3rd level caster and progresses to 2d6 at 4th, 3d6 at 6th etc. Use the old D&D rule of round down. Caster level / 2; rounded down. Remember that, typically, Divine spells are less damaging than their Arcane counterparts. (edit: I see that Gabrion agrees with me on this)

3. Lastly, we had snuck up on some orcs, who were in a clearing at the end of a trail. We could not see them, but we had heard their voices. We decided to draw them out. Our dwarf bard began beating his drum, alerting them to our presence. We lined up in the trail, missile weapons ready.

Now, do we have surprise (I didn't think so, as both sides are aware of each other), are we considered to have readied actions (again, I didn't think so because initiative had not been rolled) or is this a straight roll for initiative, and if the orcs win, they can double move and close the gap before we fire?

No surprise - unless you were hiding and they failed their Spot check as they moved down the trail. This sort of situation is exactly why my groups use the optional Initiative rule that you only get a single Standard action in the 1st round of combat. So the orcs would only be able to make a single move, and then you could fire your missile weapons.

 

[Storm Raven]

Here I disagree with Storm Raven (at least until I can check my books at home). The spell starts as 1d6 at 3rd level caster and progresses to 2d6 at 4th, 3d6 at 6th etc. Use the old D&D rule of round down. Caster level / 2; rounded down. Remember that, typically, Divine spells are less damaging than their Arcane counterparts. (edit: I see that Gabrion agrees with me on this).

I actually agree with you (I misread the question).

 

[Nonlethal Force]

1. Fear effect: My gnome wizard spooked an ogre with Cause Fear. The ogre had already moved that round. Does he run instantly, on the Wizard's turn, or does he have to wait until his turn comes around again in the order to flee?

Already handled, Ogre moves on their own init unless someone does something to grant them an extra action before its init comes up again.

EDIT: Please disregard my response to question 2. It is wrong, I have been shown the wisdom of higher paths. Thank you, sorry to have been spouting incorrect information ...

2. Deific Vengeance: Our cleric cast Deific Vengeance (from Complete Divine) at the same ogre. The cleric is 3rd level, and this second level spell calls for 1d6 damage per two caster levels. So does a third level cleric get 1d6 damage or 2d6?

Here I disagree with the old rule as stated. Although I can buy legildur's explination somewhat - except I ultimately disagree in the end. If you want to say that it starts at 3rd level and does 1d6, then you should say 3rd and 4th are the first set of two caster levels, 5th and 6th are the next set of caster levels, 7th and 8th are the next set, and so on.

However, the spell doesn't say it has to start at 1d6. It merely says:

This attack hits automatically and deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels.

Well, right now the cleric has three caster levels. So, 1d6 deal one the first set of two caster levels (1st & 2nd level) ... 2d6 on the second set of caster levels (3rd and 4th) ... etc.

A great example of what I am talking about is in the PHB p. 171 under Caster Level. The example is given:

At tenth level, Mialee can cast a fireball to a range of 800 feet for 10d6 points of damage.

Now, fireball can be learned at fifth caster level because it is a third level spell. Under legildur's explanation fireball would start at 1d6 and climb one die per level (according to the spell since it increases per level not per every other level). If that were true, it would be 1d6 at level 5, 2d6 at level 6, 3d6 at level 7, 4d6 at level 8, 5d6 at level 9, and 6d6 at level 10. But this contradicts the example given in the PHB.

Unless otherwise stated, caster level means total caster level, so a spell that does 1d6 for every two caster levels means 1d6 at levels 1&2, 2d6 at levels 3&4, 3d6 at levels 5&6, 4d6 at levels 7&8, and 5d6 at levels 9 and above. [I only go to 5d6 in this specific case because I believe the spell caps it at 5d6. If that is not the case, then the progression would continue untill the cap occurs.]

Thus, I conclude that the spell does 2d6 damage. Being a 3rd level caster means that the clerics is already into the second pair of levels - hence, 2d6 damage.

3. Lastly, we had snuck up on some orcs, who were in a clearing at the end of a trail. We could not see them, but we had heard their voices. We decided to draw them out. Our dwarf bard began beating his drum, alerting them to our presence. We lined up in the trail, missile weapons ready.

Here, I would roll init but if you were hidden I'd probably deny their DEX bonus to AC as if you suprised them or caught them flatfooted. but this isn't really an init question at that point as much as it is a question of if you were hidden or not.

 

[dcollins]

#1. Wait for action.
#2. 1d6 damage.
#3. Normal initiative roll.

The only one that's really debatable is #3. Certainly you can't ready actions outside of combat. Perhaps a DM could rule that surprise is in effect, if the orcs have no idea what they're coming up on (personally for that I'd require something more subtle, like the sound of a wounded animal, orc lady-of-the-night, etc.). Hence it sounds like the orcs know you're there, no surprise, normal initiative roll. Your ability to choose the defensive site should be advantage enough.

 

[Sledge]

Nonlethal Force you are describing "per 2 caster levels, or portion thereof". The spell however only does it "per 2 caster levels" so you need to hit a level divisible by 2 to get the dice of damage.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Nonlethal Force you are describing "per 2 caster levels, or portion thereof". The spell however only does it "per 2 caster levels" so you need to hit a level divisible by 2 to get the dice of damage.

I understand what you are saying, but then that makes 3 caster levels occurring before the first jump. To me, while I mathematically understand the divisibility rule, that doesn't make sense as per the grammer of the sentence.

It literally says per two caster levels. 1st level caster and 2nd level caster is a group of two caster levels, satisfying the meaning of the words.

Is there an example in the books somewhere that has a 3rd level caster doing 1d6 on a spell that increases per 2 caster levels?

I'm not trying to be ignorant or rude or obtrusive ... because lord knows I'm not above being wrong. I just want to understand how the meaning of the words could mean that three caster levels have to go by before you fulfill the requirement of "per two caster levels."