JDJblatherings
First Post
How does one become an 18th level wizard when they've never been in combat, a dungeon delve or adventure in any way shape or form?
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3.x ed.--While Playing My 15th Level Wizard Last Night, I Realized Something...
- Thread starter joethelawyer
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How does one become an 18th level wizard when they've never been in combat, a dungeon delve or adventure in any way shape or form?
Mephistopheles
First Post
While his adventuring peers are busy adventuring the cloistered wizard has a lot of time to work on spells that are more suited to his way of life. I've always assumed that, with the option of wizards creating their own spells, the spells that appear in the manuals are a subset of the existing libraries of magic and includes those spells that are most likely to be of use to the adventuring wizard.
Even then I'm not sure that a wizard of such a high level who has no experience in combat or related magic is plausible. Sooner or later someone or something will come looking for him.
fuindordm
Adventurer
Arcana Unearthed has some low-level spells that find out usful information about handled objects and places. Earlier editions had "Sensitiviy to Psychic Impressions" as a psionic power.
I don't think it's a huge failing of the system. If your wizard has an interest in investigation, they should make up their own spells to help. The spells that are
easy to buy and sell are those that are useful to everyone in the dangerous D&D world, possible with the exception of Tenser's Floating Disk.
I don't think it's a huge failing of the system. If your wizard has an interest in investigation, they should make up their own spells to help. The spells that are
easy to buy and sell are those that are useful to everyone in the dangerous D&D world, possible with the exception of Tenser's Floating Disk.
Remathilis
Legend
One of my favorite spells (non-combat edition) is found in the Eberron Campaign Guide: Magecraft. For the cost of one spell slot, you gain a bonus to craft checks. While that can help with making more difficult items, the real bonus is using it to speed up work on common items, making items cheaply via magic. I wish there were a few more spells like this.
Dragonwriter
First Post
Small
.Seriously, an 18th level Wizard is more likely to have some adventuring under his/her belt and would have at least some combat or useful-in-combat spells in their books.
Hypothetically, the non-combat 18th level wizard would have largely the utilitarian spells already mentioned. Other than that, the system does allow for a wizard to research and create their own spells. The reason such spells aren't printed is because they don't garner the glory that the printed spell do. You can still make them, but they won't necessarily be the interested pieces of magickry that so many other spells are.
And this just made me think of Mel Brooks' Blazing Saddles. It's the fake Rock Ridge!
so for the past day i went thru all the books i have, electronic and otherwise, and compiled a big list of all the spells i would like to eventually research that have nothing to do with adventuring fighting and dungeoneering. it took a while, but i found a bunch of them. monte cook's stuff has a lot of decent spells. i will eventually have my wizard take the time to research them.
as to the other aspects of this thread, in the style of game we play, there are more non-adventuring wizards than adventuring wizards. the non-adventuring ones can level just as high as the adventuring ones. we actually give xp for making magic items, and give xp for researching spells--we don't take xp away for performing a class function. it never made sense that a low level wizard can beat the hell out of an orc with a big wooden stick, kill it and gain xp, but if he actually did something more true to his class, like scribe a scroll, he loses xp.
since cost is the primary determiner of how many spells and magic items one can create, that's the reason many wizards turn to a life of adventure. but obviously, a wizard could have other means of income less dangerous. like investments in mercantile companies, sales of alchemical or herbalistic goods, use his spells for communication purposes for clients, teleport others or items over long distances, perform scribe or sage services, etc. therefore, adventuring wizards usually go up in level faster than non-adventuring wizards, who have less gp at their disposal. therefore they make fewer magic items and perform less research, and don't gain as much xp.
Challenges aren't always combat oriented in our campaigns. a wizard overcomes the challenge of creating an item or scroll, or researching a new spell, hence he gets xp. a blacksmith overcomes the challenge of making a suit of armor, hence he gains xp.
so anyhow, what i have been doing is filling in the blanks with spells other than combat/adventuring oriented ones.
i appreciate all the helpful advice and pointers.
as to the other aspects of this thread, in the style of game we play, there are more non-adventuring wizards than adventuring wizards. the non-adventuring ones can level just as high as the adventuring ones. we actually give xp for making magic items, and give xp for researching spells--we don't take xp away for performing a class function. it never made sense that a low level wizard can beat the hell out of an orc with a big wooden stick, kill it and gain xp, but if he actually did something more true to his class, like scribe a scroll, he loses xp.
since cost is the primary determiner of how many spells and magic items one can create, that's the reason many wizards turn to a life of adventure. but obviously, a wizard could have other means of income less dangerous. like investments in mercantile companies, sales of alchemical or herbalistic goods, use his spells for communication purposes for clients, teleport others or items over long distances, perform scribe or sage services, etc. therefore, adventuring wizards usually go up in level faster than non-adventuring wizards, who have less gp at their disposal. therefore they make fewer magic items and perform less research, and don't gain as much xp.
Challenges aren't always combat oriented in our campaigns. a wizard overcomes the challenge of creating an item or scroll, or researching a new spell, hence he gets xp. a blacksmith overcomes the challenge of making a suit of armor, hence he gains xp.
so anyhow, what i have been doing is filling in the blanks with spells other than combat/adventuring oriented ones.
i appreciate all the helpful advice and pointers.
Duncan Haldane
Explorer
Well, I think one problem with this is that IMO these types of spells aren't the purview of wizards - want someone to help with a difficult childbirth? Ask a healer (cleric). Want someone to help you grow your crops? Ask a nature type (druid).
For the OP's original point, I do like having more utility spells for wizards - they are the type who are too lazy to get their own drink from the bar and use a mage hand to carry it over, right?
But "who wrote the note" strikes me as a Divination class of spell, and usually cleric-types are better at getting those kind of answer IMO.And while I lament the difficulty of a home-body wizard getting to 18th level without combat, I also see the other side of the coin - the level 20 elven commoner who just got experience walking to the shop and back each day - too late to choose a class now!
Another issue with the 18th-level homebody is the mindset of 3.x, where everything is "by the rules" - if you can't create the 18th level wizard via the rules available at the moment, then it can't exist, right? At least 4th ed is trying to get us away from that mindset - now in 4th ed the PCs follow the rules, but the DM can make others however she cares to.
OTOH if you want to lament the stripped-down, overly-combat focused wizard, have a look at 4th ed ... "we don't need no stinking utility spells"
Duncan
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Duncan Haldane
Explorer
Ok, here's some helpful advice...
Capitilization of new sentences helps improve readability. It allows the eye to pick out the start of the sentence easier, as the full stops can be hidden by other characters. For myself, I also like the older tradition of two spaces after a full stop, again aiding the layout and readability of the sentence.
Duncan
Duncan Haldane
Explorer
...
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Remember, the 3e philosophy is that "These rules are how the world functions". NPCs operate the same way as PCs do. At least, that's what the 3e fans I've heard on these boards say: the rules are the world's physics.
I much prefer the "Everything not involved in the PCs works the way I need it to work because I'm the DM and it fits the situation."
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