D&D 5E 30/5 D&D Alumni Archives: Beyond Feudalism - Experimental Genres

[Henry]

Indeed - GoT presents horror to create horror in the audience, generally, whereas SoT presents horror in a far more voyeuristic and "Isn't this thrilling?!" kind of way.

I remember a novel from my teenage years, written by Mark Rogers of Samurai Cat fame, called Zorachus. There was so much aberrant crap going on in that one it gave me nightmares back then. Occasionally I think about finding it again, to reread it to see if it was as vile as I recalled, but it's out of print and a hard book to find -- perhaps for the best, I get my nightmare quota in the news these days anyway.

 

[Bluenose]

I find it extremely annoying that oriental/Far east/whatever you call it, is always an aside or an expansion. Of course we have Legend of the 5 Rings which is one of my favorite games ever. But in almost every medium it's just so far off to the side, it rarely gets the center stage. For instance, world of warcraft is a sort of classic fantasy and then Mists of Pandaria comes out- an expansion. Magic the gathering had a couple of blocks of eastern inspired stuff. Guild wars expansion was oriental themed. Pathfinder has the Jade(something or other) adventure path, and ninja and samurai are in an expansion book. Final fantasy, despite being from Japan usually has a samurai or ninja themed character thrown in but never the focus of the story. There are extremely few eastern fantasy novels that I'm aware of, while there are thousands of Knightly European Magic stuff.

It's really sad because there's SO MUCH history and fantasy elements out there but everything focuses on western stuff. Like I said earlier there's Legend of the 5 Rings roleplaying game. If you want that kind of setting at the forefront, that is basically your only mainstream option. No other RPG (that I'm aware of) is build from the ground up to support that specific kind of setting. Same with video games, there's..... uh... Jade Empire and the "Warriors" series of games that focus on eastern stuff. We get more of it in anime sure, Dragonball, Avatar/Korra, Naruto etc, which is expected but still.... not really as much as you would think compared to western stuff.

There's no real point to this post, I just find it interesting that everyone complains that XXX is so generic same traditional fantasy stuff when there's a completely untapped pool in eastern inspired mythology/fantasies etc. It just kind of sucks that it's RARELY the focus of things. If you feel this way as well and haven't checked it out, GO LOOK AT LEGEND OF THE 5 RINGS!!!

There are a few others dealing with east Asia, and there have been more in the past. Bushido was one of the earliest RPGs I owned, Tianxia is new, Qin is being translated at a very slow pace by C7 and there are a fair number of "modern day" RPGs too. And it's still better served than a lot of other areas, such as south Asia, sub-Saharan Africa, pre-Columbian America, for examples. Almost anything that isn't "fantasy medieval Europe" is poorly served, though there have been some excellent examples in this thread of alternatives.

There are exceptions - Exalted is the most obvious one in the RPG world - they very actively mixed East and West, Homer and Manga, and so on.

I would add Glorantha to that, as a setting at least.

 

[Evenglare]

You are exactly right, It's a bit more pronounced than say... an egyptian setting which again is just thrown in as some sort of expansion. As well as all the others you listed. The maddening thing is that there is so MUCH eastern inspired stuff that is extremely diverse, just as much as European myth and lore. It's just... neglected so often. I guess monks are usually a sort of base class in most RPGs though.... that's... something i guess? A great RPG that represents most all cultures is Scion. Man... that's a great game as well. I think shadowrun does a pretty good job of representing eastern culture too. Shadowrun is pretty popular now that I think about it. Probably more so than L5R because of the videogames and such.

 

[Agamon]

Check out Tianxia (Fate) and Arrows of Indra (OSR) for eastern setting games, too. I've heard good things about both.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

You are exactly right, It's a bit more pronounced than say... an egyptian setting which again is just thrown in as some sort of expansion. As well as all the others you listed. The maddening thing is that there is so MUCH eastern inspired stuff that is extremely diverse, just as much as European myth and lore. It's just... neglected so often. I guess monks are usually a sort of base class in most RPGs though.... that's... something i guess? A great RPG that represents most all cultures is Scion. Man... that's a great game as well. I think shadowrun does a pretty good job of representing eastern culture too. Shadowrun is pretty popular now that I think about it. Probably more so than L5R because of the videogames and such.

I wouldn't say Shadowrun myself, because of it's horrible tendency to severely stereotype cultures. I was re-reading a bunch of 2E though 4E SR stuff recently, and oh god, the stereotyping of Japan and Japanese culture is horribly painful and one-note (everyone is a Sarariman or a Samurai, basically), and China and India just get basically ignored, because SR was a baby of the '80s, and it seems like people didn't realize how important they were likely to be (SR5E and to some extent 4E start sort of retcon'ing China in, at least). It has potential there, but it's largely wasted.

L5R does a nice job because it avoids easy stereotypes and presents an actual fantasy setting inspired by Eastern myth, legend and history, with some actual respect, interest and inspiration. It's not perfect, but it's really good.

 

[Derren]

the stereotyping of Japan and Japanese culture is horribly painful and one-note (everyone is a Sarariman or a Samurai, basically)

To be fair, Sarariman do exist in reality and in a dystopian, corporate controlled world they are the "perfect" employees.

About the article, has D&D ever done feudalism right?

 

[tomBitonti]

Umm, comparing Feudal vs Horror vs High Fantasy are comparing Apples to Oranges (to Grapes).

Many games described as Feudal aren't really. WFRP has a lot of Feudal. Greyhawk, in the Free City region, hardly; but more-so in other regions. Dark Sun seemed to have more Feudal than a lot of other settings.

Thx!

TomB

 

[ppaladin123]

I would say the Theon is a good example. The things that happen to him are disturbing. George R. R. Martin's tone while he's telling you about those things is like a solemn nod of agreement to how the reader feels, "Yes, this is disturbing".

What happens to Richard in the first book (I never made it past the first book) reads much more like porn where the author's tone is more gleeful and excited.

The first validates the reader's emotions as he reads difficult things. The second juxtaposed with my emotions at least. And that juxtaposition, more than the actual acts being described, was the really disturbing part.

Also, Martin doesn't spend 100 straight pages describing the events that unfold in Greyjoy's life. Goodkin does. Though I eventually just flipped past much of it.

Thaumaturge.

I think the TV series is skirting close to torture porn in the way it has dealt with Theon's story.

 

[dd.stevenson]

I wouldn't say Shadowrun myself, because of it's horrible tendency to severely stereotype cultures. I was re-reading a bunch of 2E though 4E SR stuff recently, and oh god, the stereotyping of Japan and Japanese culture is horribly painful and one-note (everyone is a Sarariman or a Samurai, basically)

OHMYGOD yes. I can't even look at their chapters about Asia--they just kill me every time. And they're still doing it, too: check out this recent review, for example.

L5R does a nice job because it avoids easy stereotypes and presents an actual fantasy setting inspired by Eastern myth, legend and history, with some actual respect, interest and inspiration. It's not perfect, but it's really good.

Agreed again! If anyone's keen, I'd recommend happy jack's saga of the inukai podcast--it's pretty good, and gives a good notion of what this game can deliver.

Overall, I'd say that most RPG treatments I've seen of Asia are half-decent, with a few stinkers and standouts thrown in.

 

[Bluenose]

Check out Tianxia (Fate) and Arrows of Indra (OSR) for eastern setting games, too. I've heard good things about both.

Tianxia is very nice, though I'm pretty sure that the wuxia inspirations won't appeal to everyone - nor will being a Fate game, of course. Against the Dark Yogi does something rather similar for India, or at least will when it comes out properly.

About the article, has D&D ever done feudalism right?

I'd say the closest was Mystara if you're playing something in BECM D&D, and assuming you ever get into the domain rulership game. Even that requires a lot of work from the GM to get it close.