30 levels what will it mean to spellcasters?

[Quartz]

I wonder if the spell progression table for bards is going to be used for all spellcasters? I'd go for that.

 

[Kristian Serrano]

I've read that mages are supposed to still be useful even when they are out of spells, and that every level gained is 'meaningful' - which seems to suggest from recent class articles on WotC site that something is gained every level (class special, new casting level, etc).

So my guess is more class specials / bonus feats / whatever to fill the levels between gaining new spell levels. To keep this from overpowering the casters they receive new levels of spell casting less often (perhaps every third level, so that 10th level is the new max level of casting). With spell levels reorganized 9th and 10th could be the new 'epic' spell casting level - and not gained until the mid-20 levels.

Granted, this is all a guess. The idea of fewer slots that refill more often (perhaps each encounter? maybe once per hour?) could also work into this, although it sounds more like a warlock variant than a typical wizard.

I could see this all being attributed to reserve feats being a core concept. Reserve feats are eligible as wizard bonus feats, and they keep a wizard in the game even though most of their spells might be depleted.

 

[Quartz]

Oh, expanded to 9 levels, of course.

 

[der_kluge]

In D&D 4th edition, spells cast you!

 

[jodyjohnson]

If they regard the sweet spot as 7-14th level then expanding the sweet spot through 30 levels inplies the the 1st to 4th level effects will come early in the progression and the 8th and 9th level grade effects will only show up at the end game.

Between the two will be the incremental advancement. The sweet spot for casters is having access to at least 4th and up to 7th level effects.

If they go with more SWSaga style then at first casters could have access to up to 3rd level effects with failure chance while the very highest spells may only be possible at the extreme end with a high failure rate (Use the Magic skill = 30 levels/2 +5 trained +5 focused vs. DC 40 for the most powerful effects).

 

[Lobo Lurker]

I'm guessing that "spells" will be usable once per encounter, just like force powers work in the Star Wars SAGA Edition rules. And, to keep the wizards doing stuff, Talents will likely let them perform relatively minor but meaningful effects throughout combat.

EX: The cleric might be able to cast HEAL only once per combat, but Cure Light Wounds every other round.

Just my meaningless guesses.

 

[jmucchiello]

One of the articles mentioned that the 30 levels is to build epic levels into the core rules rather than to extend non-epic levels by another 10.

Yes, but I'll eat my hat if they include the epic spell system in the PHB. (Figuratively, of course.)

If they regard the sweet spot as 7-14th level then expanding the sweet spot through 30 levels inplies the the 1st to 4th level effects will come early in the progression and the 8th and 9th level grade effects will only show up at the end game.

Last time the "sweet spot" showed on these boards, folks called 5-9th levels the sweet spot. Depends on who you are talking to what spot is the sweetest. I like all levels so for me expanding the "sweet spot" could end up drawing out one flavor far too long.

 

[Remathilis]

My hope is that spell Trees become akin to Augments from Expanded Psionics. To Whit:
----------------
Cure Wounds [Healing]
Conjuration
Action: Standard
V, S
Save/SR: Special/Yes
Range: Touch/Special

You channel positive energy to heal wounds. The amount healed depends on the spell slot used.

0: 1 hp
1st: 1d8 + caster level (max 5)
2nd: 2d8 + CL (max 10)
3rd: 3d8 + CL (max 15)
4th: 4d8 + CL (max 20)
5th: 1d8 + CL (max 25) to all allies within 30 ft of caster
6th: 2d8 + CL (max 30) to all allies within 30 ft of caster
7th: 3d8 + CL (max 30) to all allies within 30 ft of caster
8th: 4d8 + CL (max 30) to all allies within 30 ft of caster
9th: 5d8 + CL (max 30) to all allies within 30 ft of caster

Special: Positive Energy harms undead, causing damage equal to the amount hp that would have normally been healed.
-----------------------

Isn't that elegant for handling a bunch of spells (cure minor-mass cure)? The same could be done for summon monster, fire-spells, teleports, bigby hand spells, restoration/status removal spells (remove fear - mass heal) etc, etc.

Would save a lot of page space, allow casters to use their spells move creatively, give more variety to spontaneous casters, etc.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Yes, but I'll eat my hat if they include the epic spell system in the PHB. (Figuratively, of course.)

I'm glad that they're including epic stuff now; one of my big complaints was the artificial barrier.

And the epic spells were a good start, though really easy to cheese out, yet not terribly cost-effective.

Last time the "sweet spot" showed on these boards, folks called 5-9th levels the sweet spot. Depends on who you are talking to what spot is the sweetest. I like all levels so for me expanding the "sweet spot" could end up drawing out one flavor far too long.

It depends on who's talking. I've always thought the sweet spot to be in the low teens, when you're able to reliably do cool stuff.

Brad

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Your thoughts?

Will there be more than 9 spell levels?
How many more could it be a new spell level every level?
How will the classes be balanced if your wizard or cleric can cast thier highest level spell every encounter?
Will Vanican magic officially be toast?
Will the new magic system be based off the psionic mechanics of 3.5?

That's a damn fine question sir.

I expect there will be 10 spell levels, myself, and that spells will be shifted around a bit, probably with some holy cows staying in place (i.e. fireball at 3rd). Hopefully, as Remathilis says, we'll see some spells having a sort of "multi-level" construction a la psionics.

I don't think we'll see actual spells being on an per-encounter basis, but rather there being some limited ability to regain spell-levels without actually resting (i.e. an equivalent to "mana regen").

As others have said, we'll probably see feat and/or talent-tree-type abilities at any level where you don't gain a spell level, so that should be fine.

I expect we'll see more "built-in" metamagic, perhaps as part of talent trees, perhaps even as skills. I also expect we'll see more spells with varied casting times (rather than most spells being 1 round and the rest might as well just be "can't cast in combat").

I'll also be surprised if we don't see a Warlock-style "energy blast"-type ability to keep Mages in the fight when they're out of spells, or perhaps, more interestingly, some "debuffing", "countermagic" or "CC"-type abilities which don't require spell slots.

As to whether Vancian magic goes entirely, well, I hope so, but I kind of doubt it.