D&D 5E (2014) 30 speed for all! Halflings, Gnomes, Dwarves were feeling left behind?

[Lwaxy]

Dwarfs are medium sized in PF and the players hate that so we usually make them small.

But then in some we also add encumbrance based on constitution and size rarther than race.

 

[thewok]

I think dwarves should be changed to medium sized.

Dwarves have been Medium since 3E, at least.

 

[pemerton]

I think dwarves should be changed to medium sized.

If not then make it an ability that they can carry more and still retain their normal move.

In 4e, dwarves are Medium size, have speed 5, and have the following ability:

You move at your normal speed even when it would normally be reduced by armor or a heavy load.​

 

[Wyckedemus]

As a matter of verisimilitude, halflings exist in real life (the term is over 200 years old and has been used to describe dwarfism), and they do not run either as fast as your dog, or a normal height-unchallenged person, even most children can outrun them.

Talking about your dog running faster than you is about as pertinent to to this topic, whether 3-foot tall halflings and gnomes in D&D should have the same base movement rate as an adult human, as the price of gas is to a bird.

And no, D&D Next should not be a meaningless sludgy soup of nonsensical, absurd and contradictory rules that make no sense and cause reasonable people to go, Hmmmmm, why did they make this change? Speeds were not broken before, and now they will be. They're adding bugs (to many people) to the game, while claiming to want a 2014 summer ship date. That's not how you ship a game that you want to sell.

Cheers!

You are just... plain... wrong on this one.

Halflings are not humans with real-world human Dwarfism.

Halflings, gnomes, and dwarves are fantasy races that are *not* human in any way, and should not be treated as such.

Screw the idea that stride is the only thing that matters.

There is nothing wrong with assuming that halflings and gnomes are spry races that take more steps with less effort and are able keep up the same pace as humans. (Other species smaller than humans can do that as well. Dogs, for instance.) They have humanoid predators that have had to be able to run from, and it can be easily explained that they were created with such boundless energy, or they evolved to suit their needs in a world populated by human-sized predators. And their same-sized foes, Goblins and Kobolds have had speed 30 feet for a while now too. It could be said that Dwarves have such robust stamina that they take more steps than a human, and don't get tired as easy as a human.

Maybe wood elves have a speed of 35 because they have stride in additon to the boundless, spry energy that halflings and gnomes have.

Older rulesets that give short PC races lower movement speeds were written by designers who thought like you do, that these races are slow because they are essentially tiny humans. And I believe that is a poor, misguided reason for them to have been given those slower movement speeds.

And you keep on saying that the designers are considering this rule change for no reason. They gave reasons. "The speed penalty for smaller characters and dwarves doesn't differentiate them from the other races in any interesting way. Moreover, goblins and kobolds have had a speed of 30 feet since the days of 3rd Edition, so in some ways, we're simply adjusting gnomes, halflings, and dwarves to an existing standard."

Other posters have been giving reasons. You just disagree with them. Heck, someone else made a point that the Exploration Rules they are writing may be showing bugs that we haven't been seeing yet. If one character has a speed of 25 or 20, that means that the entire group moves much slower during exploration at all times? Guess how many groups would handwave it? I believe it would be many.

How many penalties do you demand that small PC races have? I'm ok with a limitation on heavy weapons and versatile weapons, but overall speed penalties, strength penalties, weapon penalties, and whatever else people dream up... give it a rest. They are fantasy species. Stop looking at them like toddlers or human little people and giving them limitations that you think those people should have.

... in my opinion.

 

[Gorgoroth]

You are just... plain... wrong on this one.

Halflings are not humans with real-world human Dwarfism.

Halflings, gnomes, and dwarves are fantasy races that are *not* human in any way, and should not be treated as such.

... in my opinion.

The term halfling exists and was used to describe dwarfism, where do you think Tolkien got the idea? He didn't invent the term.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=halfling

Be sure that you are, you know, actually correct, before calling someone else incorrect, when a 2 second google search could easily prove you 100% dead wrong..As for the rest of your post, I didn't take the 30 seconds it would take to read it, because you didn't even take the 2 seconds it took me to find proof that "halfling" predates Tolkien by two centuries.

 

[The Human Target]

Do you think that Peter Dinklage lives in a burrow and has excessive hair on his feet?

Cause you sure seem too, and that's both offensive and silly.

 

[Obryn]

The term halfling exists and was used to describe dwarfism, where do you think Tolkien got the idea? He didn't invent the term.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=halfling

Be sure that you are, you know, actually correct, before calling someone else incorrect, when a 2 second google search could easily prove you 100% dead wrong..As for the rest of your post, I didn't take the 30 seconds it would take to read it, because you didn't even take the 2 seconds it took me to find proof that "halfling" predates Tolkien by two centuries.

Um...

So are you saying that the fantasy race of halflings isn't intended to actually be a fantasy race of little humanoids with hairy feet in D&D, but actually supposed to be a human race of people with dwarfism? Or that that's what hobbits were in Middle Earth?

Because I simply don't know what your response is supposed to mean otherwise.

 

[Gorgoroth]

Do you think that Peter Dinklage lives in a burrow and has excessive hair on his feet?

Cause you sure seem too, and that's both offensive and silly.

I'm saying that Tolkien took real life halflings with which he was familiar with, at least on principle, and imagined an entire race of them, and what they might be like. He took something that exists in reality, and modified it to his story. The rational basis for comparison between "regular" human movement rate and that of a dwarf, must either be based on reality, or on your own opinion. And if you base your opinions on analogs in real life, then you would probably conclude that dwarfs, gnomes, and halflings, should move slower than humans and elves.

The actual thing that's silly here is imagining the speed of leg motion of someone 3 feet tall compared to a 6 foot tall person, running with the same speed. That's comical, and actually quite offensive.

Giving halflings the same speed as humans is patronizing and offensive to me. It's anti-intellectual, has no basis in either reality OR fantasy, and I consider it not only an insult to D&D trying to assign reasonable values to such things like racial average speeds, but also to its players' intelligence. I find it insulting to consider playing a game where halflings, dwarves, and gnomes walk as quickly as humans, on the basis of communistic / socialistic everybody must be given a level playing field, because otherwise life is unfair and we can't have that. We can't recognize that. We can't admit that there are those with advantages and disadvantages, and that not everyone is created equal.

Because that would make D&D a game suitable for adults, instead of children.

Mod Note: Suggestion that a game design is part of a political mindset, is a pretty clear violation of our no-politics rule. The post has been noted, and will be handled by the moderators. Please don't respond to rudeness with more rudeness. Thank you. ~Umbran

 

[Wyckedemus]

The term halfling exists and was used to describe dwarfism, where do you think Tolkien got the idea? He didn't invent the term.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=halfling

Be sure that you are, you know, actually correct, before calling someone else incorrect, when a 2 second google search could easily prove you 100% dead wrong..As for the rest of your post, I didn't take the 30 seconds it would take to read it, because you didn't even take the 2 seconds it took me to find proof that "halfling" predates Tolkien by two centuries.

Allow me to clarify my statement, to negate your strawman (where you try to debate the origin of the word in our world, as opposed to the definition used in D&D.)

Halflings *in D&D* are not humans with dwarfism.

Dwarves *in D&D* are not humans with dwarfism.

You cannot equate little people in our world with dwarves and halflings of D&D. They are completely different species.

So yeah, while the word "halfling" has had a definition in our world before it was used by Tolkein and D&D, you are wrong to refer to them in the context of the real world. In fact, I would advise against trying to define limitations of real world little people in game terms. It could be perceived as offensive.

We are talking about the fantasy worlds of D&D and their completely fantasical species who have delightfully wondrous, yet mysteriously defined traits like "Lucky", "Stonecunning", and "Natural Illusionist". So let's stick to that, shall we?

Thank you.

... in my opinion.

 

[herrozerro]

I'm saying that Tolkien took real life halflings with which he was familiar with, at least on principle, and imagined an entire race of them, and what they might be like. He took something that exists in reality, and modified it to his story. The rational basis for comparison between "regular" human movement rate and that of a dwarf, must either be based on reality, or on your own opinion. And if you base your opinions on analogs in real life, then you would probably conclude that dwarfs, gnomes, and halflings, should move slower than humans and elves.

The actual thing that's silly here is imagining the speed of leg motion of someone 3 feet tall compared to a 6 foot tall person, running with the same speed. That's comical, and actually quite offensive.

Giving halflings the same speed as humans is patronizing and offensive to me. It's anti-intellectual, has no basis in either reality OR fantasy, and I consider it not only an insult to D&D trying to assign reasonable values to such things like racial average speeds, but also to its players' intelligence. I find it insulting to consider playing a game where halflings, dwarves, and gnomes walk as quickly as humans, on the basis of communistic / socialistic everybody must be given a level playing field, because otherwise life is unfair and we can't have that. We can't recognize that. We can't admit that there are those with advantages and disadvantages, and that not everyone is created equal.

Because that would make D&D a game suitable for adults, instead of children.

So I ask you, what would be the appropriate speed? half of human speed? 5' less than a human? Could you use your 6 figure computer simulation skills to model up a realistic simulation so we can finally settle what realistically should happen for smaller races in a fantasy game?