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3E Mortality Rate

Elder-Basilisk

First Post
Like Endur, Living Greyhawk is currently my primary campaign. In something like 400 hours of playing, I've seen quite a few deaths:

1. lvl 3 halfling barbarian vs. Assassin vine. The vine won.
2. Lvl 3 cleric wandered off on her own following an illusion and got hit by a Phantasmal Killer spell.
3. A 3rd level sorceror wandered away from the party to get a better look at the parade we suspected to contain a diabolical plot. He was ambushed by two werecreature rogues, sneak attacked, and critted, and was dead before he hit the ground.
4. A Rgr 1/Wiz 5 and Bbn 1/Rog 5 split off from the party to guard a woman and an old priest of Pholtus from a troll while the rest of the party chose to guard a warehouse for a local druid. The wizard was rended to death and the Bbn/Rog stabilized on his own at -6 hp or so and was dragged back to the troll's lair and stuck Luke Skywalker like into the roof to be eaten later.
5. Our party attempted a frontal assualt on a captured fort in the Trollfens. The halfling Bbn/Rog (the same one as before--he's too brave for his own good) tumbled past the barbarian we were fighting at the gate, through a horde of zombies and ended up next to the evil 7th level cleric who killed him with an Inflict Serious.
6. We were fighting a giant plant creature and one of our fighters went down. The cleric moved to heal him and provoked an AoO for a max damage critical hit. The next round the plant creature full attacked him, hit with both attacks and rolled max damage on one of the attacks. He went to -11.
7. Our (8th level) party was ambushed by a group of 6 trolls with flaming composite longbows. The 6th level cleric travelling with us went down when she waited instead of retreating with the rest of the group.
8. An advanced Invisible Stalker went after one of our party's archers and knocked him to -11 (the archer would have lived if he'd raged and fought instead of retreating) before going down.
9. Grappled by a giant praying mantis, our party's rogue was at 2 hp. The archer fired into the grapple and hit the rogue with his first shot (it was a critical).
10, 11. Trying to escape from a city being overrun, we lost our two fighters to large insects with Rend and a Dazing gaze attack.
12. A first level bard ran out ahead of the rest of the party and encountered a darkmantle. Her brains were darkmantle chow by the time the rest of the party could catch up.

That boils down to quite about 1 character death for every forty hours of gaming.

Running Living Greyhawk,
1. 2nd level archer died (bled from -8 to -10 hp) after going toe to toe with a 6th level fighter inside the druid's obscuring mist spell. Nobody could see him to stabilize him.
2. Ftr/Bbn failed his save against a mummy's fear aura and was coup de graced by the hasted evil cleric with nothing (else) productive to do that round. (He nearly survived too--the save turned out to only be DC 15)
3. A wizard's druid cohort guarding a shipment of grain was magic missiled to 0 hp by the high level pirate wizard attacking her ship and tried to cast Cure Light Wounds on herself. Unfortunately, the wizard had readied an action to magic missile any enemy spellcaster.
4. Rogue tumbles into a room full of orcish Ftr/Rogs with greataxes and stays 3 rounds while at 2 hp. Then he's critted. . . .
5. The party is fighting a fiendish centaur barbarian (but their rogue is too cowardly to move in for a sneak attack and their cleric is too dumb to cast magic weapon and get past the DR). On the last round before the centaur's rage expires, he charges the 3rd level sorceress and crits with his longspear for 37 points of damage.
6. The rogue is invited upstairs by a seductive female assassin and, after spotting her going for her sword, hangs out long enough to be bluffed and death attacked (instead of jumping out the window or running out the unlocked door).
7* (This was a playtest using fake characters) the party's 8th level wizard killed half the goblin cavalry with his first fireball then slowed 2/3 of the remaining ones, then glitterdusted the last few, all the while remaining within full attacking distance of the goblin's Ftr/Bbn leader and his advanced Worg mount. After taking some 70 hp of damage (he was a gnome with a 20 constitution), he bled to death in round 4 of the combat--the party's two clerics being either on the wrong side of the advanced Worg or tripped and the paladin having used up his Lay on Hands in a previous encounter.

In my home game (36 point buy) which went 38 sessions.
1. Orcish barbarian hiding behind rocks from orcish archers answers their challenge to "come up here and find out how orcs fight." Orcs fight dirty and when it's 8 on 1, they usually win. This barbarian, however ran away from the fight, got healed by the cleric (did I mention, they had decided to split the party?) and then ran back to the melee. His rage ran out and he was spitted.
2-4. (TPK) Party is ambushed by an evil cleric with a mummy and a horde of skeletons. Cleric and (NPC) fighter fail their will saves and are parylized for 3 rounds each. The fighter/wizard casts invisibility and spends the next 3 rounds buffing up. The rogue/bard tries to help out but fails his round 1 save against Sound Burst and is quickly taken down by the evil cleric.
4.5. The party cleric volunteers to hold off the evil cleric while the rest of the party escapes. He charges into the darkness and is not seen again. (This doesn't really count because I had the bad guys stabilize and imprison the PCs after the "TPK". The cleric's player didn't really like that option and wanted to bring in a new character--still, the party waited too long after escaping and the cleric returned to their prison and handed them a sound whooping. If the cleric hadn't volunteered to die, it might well have been another TPK).
5. Having bought a potion of "cure light wounds" from a hag, and then having been attacked by her and rended down to unconsciousness, the rog/bard's player says "give me the potion". . . which was really poison. One fort save later, he was dead.
6. The (now 8th level) fighter/wizard vs. a pair of fiendish Girallons. He was rended into monkey kibble.

The mortality rate in my home campaign was a lot higher; it was pretty close to 1 death every 5 or 6 sessions.
 

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Victim

First Post
Hmm. I think 3e is more lethal, at least at higher levels. Back in the day, I found that HP made fights between two tough guys longer. Now, it's like "what the heck, where'd my 70 HP go?!" as a Girallon shreds a character in one round. At higher levels, saving throws aren't as automatic as before, as casters will increase save DCs. Now a wizard can throw a finger of death at another relatively high level character and count on a decent success chance if he's aiming at a appropriate target.
 

ForceUser

Explorer
Elder-Basilisk: what beautiful carnage! *sniff*

Among the group of regulars I game with, one of us manages to get himself killed about once every six sessions. Since we're sharing and stuff, I'll highlight my favorites:

Homebrew #1
1) 3rd-level halfing rogue tumbles past a dungeon chokepoint to find himself surrounded by several goblins and an ogre. Halfing paste.

2) 3rd-level human bard/cleric, in the midst of a tense battle hidden by an obscuring mist, unfortunately stumbles into a 5' square adjacent to an orc barbarian with a greataxe. The PC, with his whopping 7 Con, has 12 hit points. Naturally, the orc crits.

Homebrew #2
1) 1st-level human paladin charges an owlbear (!) because the player, metagaming, assumes that since he's 1st-level, the monster is also 1st-level. Owlbear shreds paladin, dropping him from 11 to -18 hit points with a full attack.

Greyhawk: The Divinity Manuever teasers (the following has happened in the campaign but not the story hour - yet)
1) 7th-level human telepath/rogue is obliterated by three overlapping unholy blights cast in the same round. He's got Evasion, of course, but unholy blight is a Fort save.

2) 8th-level half-elf paladin is curb-stomped to death by a very large, very angry fomorian giant.

3) 8th-level human cleric is pounded by three ogre barbarians. As he's waiting for his next action to occur in the initiative order so he can back out of melee and heal himself, an eyrinies devil springs out of hiding and unleashes an unholy blight...centered on said cleric. Boom, splat. Damn devils and their tactics.
 

Protean

Still the Same
After awhile of experience I've found that amongst those that play things smart no higher amount of lethality can be found in 3e, but that 3e has an increasingly low threshold for stupid player mistakes as levels increase. The save or die spells espicially cause problems with groups who take on minions and tanks before spell casters and don't make use of disspelling techniques. This is mirrored in its reluctance to accept characters, espicially clerics who assume non-traditional roles, such as the demon-hunter cleric I've recently played who after a life of solo adventuring life is reluctant to use his higher level spell slots to adopt the medic role assumed. However amongst the tabletop group I played with the sheer amount of responsible players and the spread of those capable of healing magics made the party's life expectancy much much higher at similar levels. I'm just wary of the fact that less optimized parties have such a disparity in survivability, espicially considering that the other group is much more statistically viable.

Feel like I'm getting off-topic so I'll stop.
 

Endur

First Post
I apologize. I completely forgot about the city being overrun. We lost a cleric and an archer there. I carried the cleric's body and we resurrected the archer from a small piece of what was left of his body.

Elder-Basilisk said:
Like Endur, Living Greyhawk is currently my primary campaign. In something like 400 hours of playing, I've seen quite a few deaths:
10, 11. Trying to escape from a city being overrun, we lost our two fighters to large insects with Rend and a Dazing gaze attack.
 

Celtavian

Dragon Lord
Re: Re: Re

Scupper said:




Breath weapon?

Half-dragon T-rex. Let's just say that Monte Cook went a little mad when designing RttToEE. I really think he was reading too many H.P. Lovecraft stories and wanted to incorporate the maddening, no-one-leaves-without-mental-scars-that-will-haunt-you-for-the-rest-of-your-days feel. We haven't yet told the PC who killed the other PC what she did yet. The two were beginning to become romantically involved when she cut his head off during a fit of insanity.

RttToEE is a true meatgrinder. I would not believe the Dm or player who told me they went through that module without at least two or more PC's dying at least once.
 

Yeoman

First Post
Re: Re: Re: Re

Celtavian said:
RttToEE is a true meatgrinder. I would not believe the Dm or player who told me they went through that module without at least two or more PC's dying at least once.

I think our final bodycount there was like in the low 30s. We got frustrated with it, but we sure as **** weren't going to let this module beat us. We finished it, but man it was crazy lethal. (And of course our group rolls like crap when it counts.)
 

Draxx said:
I utilize a d30 system of rolls. Characters start with 1 d30 point which they can use in place of any normal d20 roll. They get another at each new level...
Whoa!!! :)

Sweet & Simple

Wish I'd thought of it. I just might use something similar in my next Basic D&D campaign. I don't think I'd allow the purchase of additional dice though--just a straight 1 per level. Do you have them refresh between adventures, recover at some other rate, or are they lost altogether when used (if the latter, I can see why you allow the purchase with XPs)? Do you declare use of a d30 before rolling, or may a re-roll be made once with a d30 after the d20 roll has failed? I suppose the two could even be combined--declaring a d30 roll, failing it, then using another d30 for the single re-roll. . .
 

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