Ogrork the Mighty
Explorer
It could have been worse... he could have been from Kazakhstan.
pawsplay said:"The world's best! ... Now even better!"
Asmor said:How is that double speak? Just for the sake of argument, let's say that every game on the planet has a score on an arbitrarily large "funness" scale. A game with a score of 1 is the worst game ever, and the more fun a game is, the higher the score. There is no limit to how high the score can be.
Now, imagine that every game on the planet has a score somewhere in the range of 5 and 2,497... except for GameX, which has a funness of 2,451. That is to say, it's the best (most fun) game in the world.
Now, along comes GameX 2nd edition, with a funness score of 2,612.
GameX is the world's best, and now it's even better.
Asmor answered this well. There's no conflict. They're not saying 3e sucked, they're saying it has flaws which 4e will fix.Agamon said:Anyone else notice this conflicting message? One of the big points in the presentation is to "keep playing your 3E game for now." It's been mentioned in a few interviews, too.
On the other hand, we're treated with examples of how 3E is horrible and will be made so much better in 4E. Damn those grappling rules and attacks of opportunity! I'm so confused! I'm not sure I can keep playing!
Agamon said:Anyone else notice this conflicting message? One of the big points in the presentation is to "keep playing your 3E game for now." It's been mentioned in a few interviews, too.
On the other hand, we're treated with examples of how 3E is horrible and will be made so much better in 4E. Damn those grappling rules and attacks of opportunity! I'm so confused! I'm not sure I can keep playing!
Presumptuous or not that is what a salesman must believe. He must believe that his product is the best. Likewise he must believe that a new version will be even better. If he believed anything else he would not be doing his job.pawsplay said:Yes, it's certainly within the limits. But it begs the question, what is it being compared against in terms of improvement? It's presumptuous to say that a game is being improved a lot but was already superlatively the best; the implication is that it is now in some stratosphere which other games can hardly aspire to.
Forget about perfect. Products don't need to be compared to a non-existent idealised absolute. They just have to be compared to other products.pawsplay said:If the game can be improved, that means it was not perfect; if it was not perfect, how absolutely can it be said to have been the best - wouldn't that depend on the criteria used? If it can be said to be "the best" it must be nearly perfect, since it must contend in several areas of comparison.
If an athlete who holds the world record for an event achieves a new personal best then the best has become even better. This is analogous to what WotC must claim for D&D. Whether you agree is another matter, but there's no contradiction.pawsplay said:"The best... now even better!" pretty much always invites self-contradiction unless you hold a product is being improved for itself, rather than to any specific purpose, or unless it has no competition.
Really bad.Jhaelen said:Well, I am German and the accent didn't sound even remotely like German. My guess was a really bad imitation of a French accent, too.
Doug McCrae said:Presumptuous or not that is what a salesman must believe. He must believe that his product is the best. Likewise he must believe that a new version will be even better. If he believed anything else he would not be doing his job.
Forget about perfect. Products don't need to be compared to a non-existent idealised absolute. They just have to be compared to other products.
Cevalic said:The one thing I dont understand is about 3e being complicated. Aside from a few AoO questions at the beginning, my group hasnt had any problem figuring things out. Is it really that complicated or is this just an excuse for the need of 4th? That asked, I can see where AoO can mess people up, especially if they are just starting and didnt switch over from 2e. But I dont think its as complicated as some people make out. Oh well, no system is going to work for everyone.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see the system, or at least a more detailed preview of combat.
Agamon said:The funny thing is, when 3E was coming out, the biggest complaint was that D&D was getting "dumbed down". LOL