3rd edition promotes the imagination...

[Quinn]

I don't care about originality in the ruleset. I expect the DM to provide the originality and the imagination in the game. What I do care about are solid rules and ongoing support. Not too many game systems have that.

 

[WizarDru]

it has all been done before. nothing is original.

Some of us might disagree that it had been done well, though. Your opinions on 3rd Edition are well known, and I'm glad you enjoy previous editions...but some of us have moved on from that game because it no longer met our needs, and 3E does. A large number of us quit D&D or even the hobby for many years due to dissatisfaction with what had been done before.

 

[Psion]

Yup, I totally agree, Celtavian. I remember in my 1e & 2e days, I had this huge morass of house rules used primarily to manage weaknesses in the system. I adopted some 3e conventions with the playtest ruels and noticed immediately how much easier it was to make tweaks in 3e than in prior editions. After porting my world over to 3e, I notice that my house rules had evolved from being a "repair document" to primarily being a list of world adaptations. 3e is simply a lot more self consistent and more modular.

 

[Tom Cashel]

First impression...Cool! I inspired a spin-off thread!

Upon reading further: what is this, a discussion or a jingoistic 3E rally?

Look at this webpage for example. I have never in all my days of gaming seen so many gaming companies, products, house rules, and general discussion. Even though some folks don't want to admit, it has all come about because of 3rd edition.

I think White Wolf had a great deal to do with it. 3E borrowed a few key concepts from their system; DC, for one.

This webpage? No offense, but 10,000 gamers who can't stop futzing over rules isn't my definition of "creativity." More like "obsession."

3rd edition unified and marketed a strong gaming system with open, modifiable content.

If it's so "open" and "modifiable," then how do you explain this webpage? Why are there so many questions? Why do people rush to ask that Scrabble Deity The Sage to give the "official" answer to the questions? Because most 3E players don't modify and they don't improvise. They want a system that works.

How anyone can come on here and say that 3rd edition has not sparked the imagination of gamers in a way that has never been done before irks me. I cannot help but voice my displeasure with that opinion and point to the plethora of evidence available at this website and many others that utterly destroy the credibility of the person making such an assertion.

Sparked a fire in their wallets, more likely.

Show me some proof that the percentage of D&D 3E players who homebrew their own monsters and magic items is higher than the percentage of 3E players who buy all the new supplements to add new monsters and magic items to their game.

3rd edition is the most imaginative version of D&D to date, period, not only in terms of the wide assortement of options it gives DM's and players, but also in terms of the wide assortment of business opportunities it provides to the gaming community.

You say "business opportunity." I bring back this old chestnut: 3E is th operating system upon which dozens of gaming companies are now dependent. They are sucking at the Wizards teat. WotC's got 'em where they want them.

Time to "revise" those rules, adding in lots of material for their next "business opportunity": pre-painted plastic miniatures (another stolen idea).

I admire your gumption, Celtavian, but nobody ever said you had to agree with my 3E dissatisfaction. I was posing a question, and trying to figure out why, after 20 years of playing D&D, 3E had snuffed out my glowing inner light after only 1.5 years.

Because in my opinion, they've turned a role-playing game back into the tactical simulation from which it spawned. To me, that equals a gut-shot to the belly of imagination.

"Alas, poor Gygax--I knew him well, Celtavian."

 

[rounser]

Well done Tom, I think you've pointed out a blind spot. Any bets you'll get called a troll again?

 

[Psion]

Re: Re: 3rd edition promotes the imagination...

First impression...Cool! I inspired a spin-off thread!

Upon reading further: what is this, a discussion or a jingoistic 3E rally?

As opposed to another 3e grousing thread blaming the system for your problems that many of us seem to be using fine? Don't try to tell us that you are the one with perspective, here.

Edit: and ooh, lookie who's here to join your rally. Why am I not surprised?

I think White Wolf had a great deal to do with it. 3E borrowed a few key concepts from their system; DC, for one.

I've heard some (fairly credible) claims that 3e borrowed from other games like Rolemaster and Ars Magica, but that one is pretty silly. The idea for target number in a game has been around since the 70s. (Look up Traveller sometime.)

I admire your gumption, Celtavian, but nobody ever said you had to agree with my 3E dissatisfaction.

Judging by the tone of your post, you are telling him that he has to agree with your dissatisfaction.

 

[Tom Cashel]

Re: Re: Re: 3rd edition promotes the imagination...

As opposed to a thread scapegoating the system that all of the rest of us seem to be using fine? Don't try to tell us that you are the one with perspective, here.

3E is not above criticism, Psion. And I should be allowed to think for myself and state my own opinion of how 3E's rules have affected my game. And you should be allowed to disagree.

That's my perspective.

I've heard some (fairly credible) claims that 3e borrowed from other games like Rolemaster and Ars Magica, but that one is pretty silly. The idea for target number in a game has been around since the 70s. (Look up Traveller sometime.)

Oh, yeah...Traveller was definitely dominating the RPG market when 3E was in development.

Oh, wait...I'm thinking of Vampire: the Masquerade.

Judging by the tone of your post, you are telling him that he has to agree with your dissatisfaction.

Nope...he just has to acknowledge that it was my dissatisfaction that spawned this thread. It's not my fault that he couldn't stand all those people who happen to agree with (some or all of) my sentiments, and went off to start a "patriotic" thread.

[guilt]Oh, Eris help me, I'm such a troll...[/guilt]

 

[rounser]

Edit: and ooh, lookie who's here to join your rally. Why am I not surprised?

No Psion, Tom had it right. Look at the first few backslapping, fanboyish posts of this thread and you'll see whose rally this thread is.

As for you finding me predictable, well, I can't think of anyone on this board with less objectivity towards the game than yourself. As a reviewer with hundreds of d20 products and time spent analysing the game than almost anyone else here, you're so heavily bought into d20 that I'm surprised you can see past your nose.

 

[Psion]

Re: Re: Re: Re: 3rd edition promotes the imagination...

Oh, yeah...Traveller was definitely dominating the RPG market when 3E was in development.

Oh, wait...I'm thinking of Vampire: the Masquerade.

Who was dominating has nothing to do with who was the source of a mechanic.

That said, Vampire wasn't the dominating force. 2e was.

 

[Enceladus]

What is it you want?

Tom,

Ya don't like 3E, fine. Your point is made. I really don't know exactly what your looking for here but the answers you seek are not herein contained.

I would recommend that you go use something else (and it looks like you have) and let those who do use it, and like it, dicuss what they like without you.