Check Out The Mutants & Masterminds 4E Playtest

Released last week at Gen Con, the 4th Edition of the venerable superhero TTRPG Mutants & Masterminds is here--at least in playtest form! This 240-page book, which you can grab right now on DriveThruRPG as a PDF for $14.99 or in print for $44.99 from Green Ronin's website, includes the complete game from character creation to the core game rules.

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For more than twenty years, the Mutants & Masterminds superhero roleplaying game has empowered the imaginations of countless players. Now you can help determine the future of the World’s Greatest Superhero RPG with the Mutants & Masterminds Origin Edition playtest!

This Origin Edition contains a complete playtest version of the upcoming Fourth Edition of the game. Contained in its pages is all you need to create heroic characters, play out epic super-battles, thwart the schemes of the vilest villains, and save the world—all with just a single twenty-sided die!

Try out refined power creation effects, updated hero archetypes, an adjusted rank scale, new advantage and action options, and more, all with the same fast-playing system M&M is known for. Then share your experiences and feedback with us to determine the final form of the next edition of the game.

The world needs heroes like you to help save it! The game needs you to make it even better! So create your heroes and determine the future of superhero roleplaying with the Mutants & Masterminds Origin Edition.

 

[Muh]

I feel like that kind of simplicity makes it a different kind of superhero game mechanically, and I like the kind of game it is. I'm really against new editions of the same game making philosophy changes like that. You want to do things that differently? For me, that means make another game.

I see what you mean. I'm not totally against the idea of feats and that might not have come across well. I'm chiefly concerned with the quantity and, well, how tiny they are. I'd prefer individual feats to feel impactful and important.

 

[overgeeked]

Never got to play 3rd edition of this, though I did buy the book. The system seems pretty cool, but I believe it would probably be better if they made it less fiddly? I don't think, for example, that the system with feats (advantages) is a good idea at all.

For me it would be an improvement if they simplified that part of the system away.

The large number of conditions is also tricky to keep track of.

I absolutely agree. 3E is fiddly as hell and 4E looks to be even more fiddly. M&M is fantastic for gamers who like system mastery and an in-depth character creation mini-game. Some of that also makes it rather clunky in actual play.

One of the great things about Green Ronin is they released almost the entire system under the OGL. Only the terms "hero points" and "power points," along with the associated mechanics, were withheld. You can go over to d20herosrd.com and freely copy the text to use as the basis of your own game, superhero or otherwise.

I see what you mean. I'm not totally against the idea of feats and that might not have come across well. I'm chiefly concerned with the quantity and, well, how tiny they are. I'd prefer individual feats to feel impactful and important.

An update that takes a page from D&D 5E re: streamlining and making certain mechanics more impactful would be welcome. Though I'm not sure that's what M&M's core audience wants.

 

[Dr. Bull]

I've been playing M&M for 17 years and it is my favorite superhero system. It does take a lot of time to master, but I think the "fiddly" nature of the game also gives character creation a lot of flexibility. Like D&D or Pathfinder, it takes a while to master, but combats can get really fast once everyone at the table knows how to play.

After looking through the playtest, I only see improvements. Some of the misunderstood material is cut or improved. Ability stats make more sense (6 instead of 8)... My players frequently confuse Dexterity with Agility. I know that the score was split for the sake of character-creation balance, but 2e did it differently (and better, in my opinion). If I recall, buying points in Agility cost 3 times more because so many skills, powers, and feats were built around this dominant ability score.

So far, it appears to be streamlined. I will make sure to include my feedback once I've had the chance to read the whole document.

I have no qualms about paying for the playtest. I did the same thing way back in the day when Pathfinder was being developed.

Essentially, I'm paying to contribute ideas to how I want to see the game evolve!

- Dr. Bull

 

[Micah Sweet]

I absolutely agree. 3E is fiddly as hell and 4E looks to be even more fiddly. M&M is fantastic for gamers who like system mastery and an in-depth character creation mini-game. Some of that also makes it rather clunky in actual play.

One of the great things about Green Ronin is they released almost the entire system under the OGL. Only the terms "hero points" and "power points," along with the associated mechanics, were withheld. You can go over to d20herosrd.com and freely copy the text to use as the basis of your own game, superhero or otherwise.

An update that takes a page from D&D 5E re: streamlining and making certain mechanics more impactful would be welcome. Though I'm not sure that's what M&M's core audience wants.

D&D 5.5's efforts of streamlining are exactly what I don't want. Why can't crunchy systems be allowed to remain crunchy systems? There's plenty of room for what you want in the hobby. You just have to follow or make a different superhero game. There's a ton out there, most of them more rules light than M&M.

 

[mamba]

D&D 5.5's efforts of streamlining are exactly what I don't want. Why can't crunchy systems be allowed to remain crunchy systems?

no one is twisting GR’s arm here, if they streamline it, it is because they think that will attract a larger audience

 

[Micah Sweet]

no one is twisting GR’s arm here, if they streamline it, it is because they think that will attract a larger audience

I'm not convinced that's a good reason to use an edition change to shift an existing game's design philosophy. Like I said, that's what new games are for.

 

[humble minion]

I'm not convinced that's a good reason to use an edition change to shift an existing game's design philosophy. Like I said, that's what new games are for.

True, but there is such think as degrees of change. I don’t think many M&M fans want to see it transition to a completely narrative diceless system or anything like that, but there’s still probably scope for simplification while keeping the system recognisable. I mean, if anything the Valiant Adventures beta rules have been actually increasing complexity, layering a 5e-style quasi-advantage mechanic on top of M&M3s traditional system of flat modifiers to dice rolls.

Personally, I don’t find 3e m&m forbiddingly overcrunchy during play as a whole (some specific powers can be exceptions to that rule…), but character building can be extremely daunting without access to HeroForge. The one game mechanic I do wish GR would eliminate in the interest of simplification is the d20 system assumption that all combats take place on a 5 ft grid. It just gets silly worrying about 5 foot increment and threat ranges when your speedster PC can move many miles in a round. Adopt a range band system like FFG Star Wars and be done with it.

 

[overgeeked]

True, but there is such think as degrees of change. I don’t think many M&M fans want to see it transition to a completely narrative ductless system or anything like that, but there’s still probably scope for simplification while keeping the system recognisable. I mean, if anything the Valiant Adventures beta rules gave been actually increasing complexity, layering a 5e-style quasi-advantage mechanic on top of M&M3s traditional system of flat modifiers to dice rolls.

Huh. I'm glad I missed that.

Personally, I don’t find 3e m&m forbiddingly overcrunchy during play as a whole (some specific powers can be exceptions to that rule…), but character building can be extremely daunting without access to HeroForge.

To me that's a sure sign it's already way too complex.

The one game mechanic I do wish GR would eliminate in the interest of simplification is the d20 system assumption that all combats take place on a 5 ft grid. It just gets silly worrying about 5 foot increment and threat ranges when your speedster PC can move many miles in a round. Adopt a range band system like FFG Star Wars and be done with it.

Absolutely. It's really wild with the AP chart that measures things in ranks. As stock PL10 character can easily have flight 10, which is barely subsonic, and flight 11 breaks the sound barrier. And these are the characters you're putting on a 5ft grid?

One thing I loved about MSH was the zoned combat, or rather "areas." Or DCH and their rough maps and theater of the mind attitude. I mean the Flash can move what 28 miles in a round. So much easier than precise grids.

 

[Theory of Games]

The one game mechanic I do wish GR would eliminate in the interest of simplification is the d20 system assumption that all combats take place on a 5 ft grid. It just gets silly worrying about 5 foot increment and threat ranges when your speedster PC can move many miles in a round. Adopt a range band system like FFG Star Wars and be done with it.

The 4e playtest goes over just that with a newer approach to combat called "Spaces":

"Using gridded maps is entirely optional in M&M. Such maps can be helpful for everyone to visualize where all of the characters are and what they are doing during action scenes. If a gridded map is in use, then a space is equal to one square or hex on a map scaled for medium size characters."

"Some Game Masters and game groups prefer what is referred to as the “theater of the mind” style of play that relies more on the players’ imaginations and the Game Master’s judgement than prepared maps and exact measurements. You should play the game in whatever style you and your group agree upon. The Mastermind’s Manual goes into more detail on the options for the Game Master."

 

[humble minion]

"Using gridded maps is entirely optional in M&M. Such maps can be helpful for everyone to visualize where all of the characters are and what they are doing during action scenes. If a gridded map is in use, then a space is equal to one square or hex on a map scaled for medium size characters."

Hmm, even having the grid at all i think is a bit of a relic of D&D3e that's best moved past in the case of M&M. Super fights should be kinetic, not based around fiddly accounting for individual squares/hexes/spaces of movement to minimise attacks of opportunity etc. I'm not sure how you DO make an abstract movement system out of a system that still has d20 in its DNA, but it's worth trying.

Or maybe it depends on how big a 'space' is. If you move away from the D&D 5ft space to, for instance a 30ft space to represent the movement distance of a regular human, then it could scale up ok. Just assume everyone in a single 'space' is functionally able to attack anyone else in the same space in melee. Standard movement distance is 1 space for an regular baseline human, superspeed and flight etc can increase that.

Or something like that.