3rd Horseman of the Apocalypse: 4E Hits the Bargain Bin

[The_Baldman]

I

don't see 5E releasing any sooner than Gen Con 2013, mostly because D&D XP will not be early next year.

The name D&D Experience is moving to Gencon not the actual show. There will still be a huge D&D show in Fort Wayne next January. It will be named Winter Fantasy and will still have Wizards staff, top tier freelancers, and much much more.

 

[Mirtek]

So much for that whole Essentials being the "Evergreen" product....

Well, they're the evergreens until the end of the edition. Just so happens to be that the end of the edition is now.

Yup, here (i.e in Germany), too. This actually made me wonder: did some info leak out before the NY Times spoiled it with their announcement?

Actually, back when the German publisher ceased to renew its D&D license after releasing the three core books it was clear that the future of 4e didn't look bright in my country.

That's about the only thing of interest to me regarding 5e: Will a German publisher pick it up?
If not, it's going to be a stillbirth (at least regarding the German-speaking countries).

Well, in Germany the problem was that D&D was never the big fish in the pond ever since DSA was released. And the edition war in Germany was clearly won by the 3.x side.

Despite that however the German publisher was quite happy with his sales of the first localized 4e books and would have very much liked to continue translating them. Unfortunately WotC wanted more than the German market could yield and instead of listening to the market knowledge of the German publisher they just canceled the contracts and went on looking for a different publisher.

Well, there aren't that many RPG publishers in Germany able to handle something like D&D and WotC went to talk to each of them and they all only shook their heads upon hearing the figures WotC wanted to see. And that was unfortunately the end of German D&D.

In a market were the 3.x'ers had won the edition wars anyway, the stop of localized D&D supplements was the final nail in the coffin of 4e in Germany. Now we have some small holdouts, but getting fresh blood is almost impossible with only English supplements available.

Without a German 5e I fear that this edition would be doomed in Germany

 

[btmcrae]

I don’t know about you, but I would happily drop a $100 on a large collection of D&D Master Set dungeon tiles for $10-$12.99 each. Hobby trade sellers know their products far better and are unlikely to liquidate D&D Dungeon Tiles at that price – but the book sellers will, so watch for this stuff over the coming weeks and months. It surely won’t last long when it hits the shelf. The same thinking – and pricing -- applies to collection of monster counters for those who prefer to use counters during play instead of miniatures or pawns.

Very good advice, and I'll be keeping an eye out for this stuff in particular. Regardless of game edition, or even game system, the tile sets are very much worth the discounted price.

 

[Maccwar]

The prices at Amazon UK have been cut by about 25 % on 4th ed stuff.

That's their usual discount. I can't see any dumping of stock in the UK yet.

 

[Roman Virtue]

I wonder how long it will take for the discounts to reach Amazon?

 

[Holy Bovine]

tl;dr: Remaindering older hardbacks is normal and doesn't tell us anything about the popularity of 4e or the significance of 5e.

Actually remaindering books with as small (relatively speaking) a print run as RPG books have is very significant. Most times you see remainder product for books that have print runs into the tens or hundreds of thousands - if any 4E books (expecting maybe the core 3) had print runs over 15 000 I'd be very shocked. I'm not sure why the pro4E crowd has such a hard time believing 4E didn't/isn't performing very well sales wise. They have effectively cancelled the line and are bringing out a new edition. That right there says 4E sales sucked. (and to attempt to stop the inevitable flames - I love 4E)

 

[Truename]

Actually remaindering books with as small (relatively speaking) a print run as RPG books have is very significant.

What do you base this on? Every reference I can find says that remainders are a normal part of publishing. ("Publishers predict sales as closely as they can, but they're never going to get their print runs exactly right and often end up over-printing. They'll then be unlikely to want copies of a book with dwindling sales to take up valuable warehouse space, so will sell the books on cheaply to the discount stores." Getting remaindered is not the end of the line | Books | guardian.co.uk) Can you back up your claim?

This isn't about defending 4e sales, it's about bringing facts to an overblown news item. (I agree that WotC must be dissatisfied with 4e to be bringing out a new edition so soon, and it's clear that Pathfinder is outselling 4e on Amazon, at the very least.)

Remaindered Books | How Publishing Really Works "most books enjoy their highest sales during the few weeks immediately after publication... When the income generated by a title is exceeded by the cost of continuing to sell it, the book is declared out of print and... remaining stocks are sold as 'remaindered books'..."

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2006/06/remainders.html "just about everything is eventually remaindered..."

And finally, this gem from Clive James (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/books/review/Orr2-t.html?_r=2&ref=review&oref=slogin ):

The book of my enemy has been remaindered
And I am pleased.
In vast quantities it has been remaindered.
Like a van-load of counterfeit that has been seized
And sits in piles in a police warehouse,
My enemy’s much-praised effort sits in piles
In the kind of bookshop where remaindering occurs.
Great, square stacks of rejected books and, between them, aisles
One passes down reflecting on life’s vanities,
Pausing to remember all those thoughtful reviews
Lavished to no avail upon one’s enemy’s book —
For behold, here is that book
Among these ranks and banks of duds,
These ponderous and seemingly irreducible cairns
Of complete stiffs.

Schadenfreudely yours,
Truename

 

[Holy Bovine]

What do you base this on? Every reference I can find says that remainders are a normal part of publishing. ("Publishers predict sales as closely as they can, but they're never going to get their print runs exactly right and often end up over-printing. They'll then be unlikely to want copies of a book with dwindling sales to take up valuable warehouse space, so will sell the books on cheaply to the discount stores." Getting remaindered is not the end of the line | Books | guardian.co.uk) Can you back up your claim?

Just from working in a bookstore for about 8 years and seeing what would be remainder and what wouldn't. In those 8 years not a single RPG item showed up in our remaindered stock (and this was one of the 2 major book chains in Canada - it was also at a time when TSR was self-destructing and if there ever was going to be a chance to see remaindered product that should have been it!). I worked at a 'clearance' store during that time as well as the regular stores and we saw almost everything the company bought on remainder but never an RPG book. This was all 15-20 years ago now so whatever.

This isn't about defending 4e sales, it's about bringing facts to an overblown news item. (I agree that WotC must be dissatisfied with 4e to be bringing out a new edition so soon, and it's clear that Pathfinder is outselling 4e on Amazon, at the very least.)

WotC is way more than 'dissatisfied' with 4E sales, imo. A new edition was like admitting 4E was a screw up from the get go. And Essentials was a complete disaster (note: I'm not saying either of these things but it is a legitimate way to view WotC's feelings of 4E and the need for a new edition).

Remaindered Books | How Publishing Really Works "most books enjoy their highest sales during the few weeks immediately after publication... When the income generated by a title is exceeded by the cost of continuing to sell it, the book is declared out of print and... remaining stocks are sold as 'remaindered books'..."

http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2006/06/remainders.html "just about everything is eventually remaindered..."

Yup - that would be exactly how things work even at a retail level. Every book sold the best the first few weeks after release - I would think this has been true of publishing for a very long time. At the same time it is damned hard to find a remaindered RPG book (I do recall seeing Champions of Ruin in a local chain bookstore about 5 years ago though - that is honestly the only time I have ever seen one and I am what you would call a frequent visitor to my local bookshops )

And finally, this gem from Clive James (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/books/review/Orr2-t.html?_r=2&ref=review&oref=slogin ):

The book of my enemy has been remaindered
And I am pleased.
In vast quantities it has been remaindered.
Like a van-load of counterfeit that has been seized
And sits in piles in a police warehouse,
My enemy’s much-praised effort sits in piles
In the kind of bookshop where remaindering occurs.
Great, square stacks of rejected books and, between them, aisles
One passes down reflecting on life’s vanities,
Pausing to remember all those thoughtful reviews
Lavished to no avail upon one’s enemy’s book —
For behold, here is that book
Among these ranks and banks of duds,
These ponderous and seemingly irreducible cairns
Of complete stiffs.

Schadenfreudely yours,
Truename

Ok. Not really sure why you felt the need for that but whatever.

 

[kunadam]

I would love to get into such a store. Unfortunately, here in Hungary even AD&D materials are still at normal price.

 

[Piratecat]

If you are a gamer who is betting that 5^th Ed won’t be released until 2013? That’s a bet I wouldn’t take – playtesting be damned.

You'd lose. If you want to actually bet, I'm all for it!