4E - 18 Months Later: Love it or hate it?

[Jack99]

<3 it

Mostly because its the edition that has given my group the best campaign and most fun since, well forever...

 

[MacMathan]

Still love it.

Easier to DM for myself and others in my group equals better stories, more detailed worlds and more time for roleplaying development.

For the players making characters that can accomplish what the players want them to reasonably well has been easier than ever, especially with the excellent electronic tools.

There are now so many options that I don' think I will ever get a chance to play all of the character ideas I have, which is a good thing

Can't wait for the upcoming conversion of the groups long-term 3e/3.5e campaign.

 

[Kafen]

Ah, I see, I thought you were referring to mechanics for using character skills/abilities in non-combat situations. There aren't any mechanics for non-combat ability/skill checks in the AD&D 1e core rules. In that light, the D&D 4e core books — even with their limited non-combat skill rules — already have more non-combat mechanics than the AD&D 1e core books do. But I see you're talking about something entirely different and, yes, the AD&D 1e core books do have more essays on things like castle construction, magic item creation, etc.

Not what I said... Edition wars forum bits aside, 4e provides for almost nothing outside of combat. 1e provides for almost everything ranging from basic building rules to conversion systems from two living systems from its own day. Basically even with the revisions to the GSL, 4e can not compare when it comes to the sheer number of core system mechanics in place for non-Combat encounters in the old editions like 1e.

 

[jdrakeh]

Not what I said... Edition wars forum bits aside, 4e provides for almost nothing outside of combat.

Except for, you know, an actual skill system for resolving non-combat action. Which AD&D 1e doesn't have.

 

[Kafen]

Except for, you know, an actual skill system for resolving non-combat action. Which AD&D 1e doesn't have.

You mean the combat actions listed under skills as a description, right? Describing skills actions with combat terms sounds an awful lot like an encounter in 4e to me. Jump is described as part of a move action as I recall as one example. That is why I would never play a 4e version of the ToEE. You could not walk five feet without actually having to enter into "encounter number 300+" before you even get halfway through the dungeon.

*shrug* not trying to start a fight, I do not mind re-inventing one or two tires for a well rounded system. I just dislike the idea of re-inventing the rubber plant, tire factory, trucking industry, stores, mechanical knowledge, metal industry, tire hubs, and tires just to get to the point where the new system has the same flexibility as the old system.

 

[Dannager]

You mean the combat actions listed under skills as a description, right? Describing skills actions with combat terms sounds an awful lot like an encounter in 4e to me.

I don't need a full write-up of exactly what my character can and cannot do with his skills outside of combat. That would be asinine, and needlessly restrictive. The skill system exists in large part to allow for out-of-combat interaction. Heck, I can't even think of a use for some of them in combat.

It really is starting to sound like you're purposefully ignoring a huge chunk of what the game system makes possible in an attempt to justify your dislike of it. The need for justification of dislike is pretty strong, apparently; more people love the game than any other rating, according to the poll, but a huge number of posts in this thread are people explaining precisely what they dislike about the game.

 

[Chainsaw]

I love hearing people compare the editions (not being sarcastic or nasty at all here), but what always sticks out to me is how relative the praise and criticism is to what sort of game you and your friends like to run - and we all have different preferences.

I'm not sure it's possible for any edition to satisfy everyone (one guy's rule subsystem is another guy's straightjacket type thing) and I'm not sure it needs to.

 

[Kafen]

I don't need a full write-up of exactly what my character can and cannot do with his skills outside of combat. That would be asinine, and needlessly restrictive. The skill system exists in large part to allow for out-of-combat interaction. Heck, I can't even think of a use for some of them in combat.

It really is starting to sound like you're purposefully ignoring a huge chunk of what the game system makes possible in an attempt to justify your dislike of it. The need for justification of dislike is pretty strong, apparently; more people love the game than any other rating, according to the poll, but a huge number of posts in this thread are people explaining precisely what they dislike about the game.

I am mostly a 1e fan. So, I would be happy to ignore the skill system for the most part. That being said, I listed what I dislike about the game - and made no personal attacks unlike yourself. I dislike the game because it has few support mechanics. You can insult me over it if you like, but the point is pretty clear.

 

[AllisterH]

Love it because of DDI.

If it was JUST the system, I would be in the Like it crowd.

Last week, I literally forgot about a session I was to run and thanks to the tools of DDI, I was able to use 45 minutes of prep for about a 5 hour session.

I get praise now from my players who think I spend a couple of hours in prep and I don't tell them it only takes me 30-45 minutes.

 

[jdrakeh]

You mean the combat actions listed under skills as a description, right?

Nooooooooo. . . I mean skills like Arcana, Bluff, Dungeoneering, Heal, History, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Perception, Religion, Stealth, Streetwise, and Thievery. All of these are entirely unrelated to combat. So, to recap, the D&D 4e core rules have an entire skill system with rules for resolving numerous non-combat actions and encounters. It's fine to say that you don't like D&D 4e but, really — when you start ignoring very easily established facts about how the system actually works in an attempt to justify that dislike to others, you should be ready for people to call you on it.