D&D 4E [4E] Barbarian build advice?

[Aulirophile]

@Aulirophile:
Yes, as stated in my Post before: "Stays at chainmail effectiveness"... So we do not disagree here... your analysis just shows, that chainmail is not enough, not that we disagree here. A garbage feat? Not at all. Just a feat which will only helps to compensate a bad build as god as chainmail proficiency, as stated in my post. (which costs 2 feats if you want to get rid of speed penalty.)

If this feat was much better, It would be too powerful. An imbalanced stat distribution should not be remedied that easily by a single feat.

You could argue that hide expertise should be getting an upgrade to +2/+2/+3 which would take into consideration, that at epic, int or dex is at least 12. But even this could be considered borderline broken.

Stays at Chainmail effectiveness... up to level 11 if you invest two feats (if you get chain spec you're actually 1 ahead of Garbage Feat HAE+Hide Spec), where it then starts to drop off relative to Chain. So barely good in Heroic, garbage thereafter (and honestly costing a feat at all makes it garbage since you can just allocate your stats properly and not worry about it). I'd say the same thing a Barbarian going up to chain, it just isn't the best way of using your feats. It lacks merit relative to the other choices.

I would actually argue that HAE was fine pre-nerf (flat +con to AC in light armor instead of Int or Dex). By the time it let Barbarian AC get a little high (and by a little high I mean, uh, comparable to a standard defender, hardly noteworthy), a lot fewer monsters actually targeted AC and Str/Con leaves you with two weak NADs right around the time that happens (Will and Ref) and the worst attacks target Will, which is going to be a weak NAD for a Str/Con or a Str/Dex Barbarian. It just wasn't relevant in actual play.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Actually you are still missing the point:

1. You can´t get chain armor specialization with those crappy stats*. (If you can get Chain armor spec, you don´t need HAE at all)

2. Of course 2 low NADs is bad... are you arguing for arguments sake?
It is at chain effectiveness. There is no question that chainmail effectiveness is not good enough for a melee striker

3. Before the nerf it was a real trap. Increasing paired stats by neglecting other defenses is asking for beeing slapped around. You could however argue that attacks targeting reflex are the least worrisome... low will can get your party in much worse trouble...

4. Could you please break down again, why chain surpasses barbarian agility + second skin + HAE?
its 10+15+12+6 = 43 for chain armor without specialization, because with crappy dex you can´t take it, compared to 10+15+ 3(Barbarian) +5+6+ 2(HAE) +2(Second Skin) = 43.
I just see no reason, why a barbarian dumping his Dexterity/Inteligence should be better off with HAE than with chain. (Actually he is ahead, because of his barbarian agility bonus to reflex.)

So can you give me a reason, why a barbarian should be able to boost his AC so easily when dumping everything into his attack boosting stats?

I still say, it is not garbage. It is just as good as it should be. Anything better and a barbarian has a too easy time. And i would have preferred, that a whirling barbarian would lose barbarian agility and get a toughness like feature instead. But this is just my opinion.

*of course you can take scale proficiency instead of chain specialization, which is nearly always a better option than chain specialization, you could actually argue that chain spec is a crappy feat.

As i said. Make HAE +2/+2/+3 and it would end in a fair boost, Make it +2/+3/+4 and then it is as good as it may be.