4e: big change in essentials: no more daily powers!

[Stoat]

I'm pretty sure you can find the rules for ranger animal companions in the Character Builder. I remember looking for them, finding them either in the CB or the Compendium, thinking that what was online had to be incomplete, looking at the full rules in Martial Power and realizing there was nothing in the book that wasn't online.

On topic: I'm cautiously optimistic about Essentials. I'd like an update to the rules that incorporates the errata. I'd like to see MM1 monsters beefed up to MM3 standards (although I don't think that's what we'll get). I'm curious to see how WotC tries to balance classes with no dailies.

 

[ExploderWizard]

To answer this honestly, the compendium really doesn't seem to answer these. There is a bad description of the beast companion rules in the Ranger class entry. It has some things missing from it and isn't entirely clear. The base familiar rules I can't seem to find, and my compendium-fu is pretty strong. The Familiar rules I'd advise finding the Dragon article that spawned them, which isn't difficult. For the Ranger, I think the only solutions are physically reading Martial Power or getting somebody on a forum you can trust to explain it to you.

Heh. That was kind of my point. I got martial power and arcane power in order to have the full rules. The DDI gave us just enough crunch to put on the character sheet without any substantial structure to back it up short of physical product. So much for the DDI providing all the crunch theory.

 

[Raven Crowking]

OK, but you have to follow my instructions closely... WAIT! THEY'RE NOT THERE! OMG! This means that familiars and beast companions are 4.5! It happened so much sooner than I thought it would!

EDIT: I am editting this post because I see that you made a lot of the points I was intending to make, and thought that you were opposed to.

Saying "This seems like 4.5" =/= "OMG!" or "I told you so."

I am actually looking forward to 5e, when and if it should come about.


RC

 

[Scribble]

I don't suppose you believe it possible for a person to say "This seems like 4.5" without believing that the person is also freaking out and going "OMG!"

I don't think saying that is unreasonable... But saying "See I told you Essentials was 4.5!!! WoTC lied" is... Especially with what little we know.

The changes certainly seem as great as those between 3.0 and 3.5, regardless of whether or not WotC wants to call it 4.5. And, if the result is a superior product, why would anyone be unhappy to see 4.5 anyway?

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

We only know of one... and we don't even really know if it's a "change" or just another option... Seems like they're leaning in the "another option" direction to me... Which is why I say it so far to me seems similar to the hybrid rules.




RC

-[/QUOTE]

 

[bagger245]

So can we expect daily powers/spells to be completely gone in 5e and become a spell point-ish system?

 

[Zaran]

OK, but you have to follow my instructions closely... WAIT! THEY'RE NOT THERE! OMG! This means that familiars and beast companions are 4.5! It happened so much sooner than I thought it would!

My point stands. Unless there's a brand new and intricate rule subsystem, the Character Builder and Compendium will handle it just fine.

-O

I hope you are right. I have to wonder if they will hold off on adding the Essentials to the online stuff just to get us to buy them.

 

[Obryn]

I don't suppose you believe it possible for a person to say "This seems like 4.5" without believing that the person is also freaking out and going "OMG!"

You... don't really read entire posts, do you? (edit: Nope, but you're man enough to fess up and edit down the road, so thanks for that.)

As I said - in bold-face no less - I think 4e could use a 4.5. But, I don't think this sounds like it, so far. Most of the folks who want to call it 4.5 aren't looking at the available evidence in anything approaching a rational fashion - given that it's based on a very short and vague article. So there's a whole lotta "gotcha!" to it, and a whole lot of trying to rub WotC's face in Rouse's quote.

For example, you said,

The changes certainly seem as great as those between 3.0 and 3.5, regardless of whether or not WotC wants to call it 4.5.

Simply put, I don't know where you're getting it from the actual article. I'd agree if, for example, PHB Fighters are no longer valid and supported choices, we're looking at an edition-like step. But, if this offers comparable stuff to the existing stuff, and can coexist alongside it without even a burp, it's no more an edition step than any other new PHB or Power book release. It'd be somewhere around the addition of Hybrids and Skill Powers from PHB3.

So no, I don't think you can call this 4.5 yet unless you're freaking out and/or being disingenuous.

-O

 

[Raven Crowking]

So can we expect daily powers/spells to be completely gone in 5e and become a spell point-ish system?

Who knows what 5e will bring?


----


Who knows what 5e will bring
In a world few orcs survive?
All I know is the name's the same --
it sells -- they'll keep it alive.



RC

--

 

[Raven Crowking]

You... don't really read entire posts, do you? (edit: Nope, but you're man enough to fess up, so thanks for that.)

You're welcome; thanks for the edit.

As I said - in bold-face no less - I think 4e could use a 4.5. But, I don't think this sounds like it, so far.

That's too bad, if true. Of course, I used 3.5 stuff with 3e "without even a burp".......As did/do many people I know.


RC

 

[Thanlis]

Simply put, I don't know where you're getting it from the actual article. I'd agree if, for example, PHB Fighters are no longer valid and supported choices, we're looking at an edition-like step. But, if this offers comparable stuff to the existing stuff, and can coexist alongside it without even a burp, it's no more an edition step than any other new PHB or Power book release. It'd be somewhere around the addition of Hybrids and Skill Powers from PHB3.

Exactly. If adding new mechanics is 4.5, then psionic classes were already 4.5, and I don't think they were.

I think the reason many non-4e players are reacting so strongly is because they really don't understand 4e design. It continues to be expansion-based design in the tradition of Cosmic Encounters and Magic: there is a fairly trim set of rules, and each class is a nicely bundled set of rules and options that expands on that core set. Adding another bundle of rules doesn't change the underlying rules any more than adding a new keyword fundamentally changes Magic.