4E book organization

[Dice4Hire]

Overall I am quite happy with the PHB, and it s organization. Lots of white space, very readable, and large-seeming font. The DMG is a lot more serious, with far fewer pictures and smaller font, while the MM is a reference book, pure and simple, not really meant to be read, but just looked at duringthe game to get necessary information.

As for the lack of character options complaints, there are enough classes in the PHB. Sure, maybe not your favorite, but just wait, they will all come eventually. I'm glad they did not just rehash the old classes, it is a new system, and some of the new classes showcase that system better, which is why they were chosen.

 

[Klaus]

When you said "book organization", I thought you were referring to the poorly arranged exposition of ideas and information. Like explaining the Three Checks (attack, skill and attribute)... which are exactly the same! Or having examples of dwarven script and elven script, but not using the names they came up for them (iirc, davek and thellanic). Or listing those advanced types of armor, but not having prices for them, and not explaining what that "special" entry means in the text. Or having monster entries in the MM that crop off illustrations, while leaving an ungodly ammount of blank space (check the Angel and Wyvern entries for examples). Or...


I could do this all day.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

When you said "book organization", I thought you were referring to the poorly arranged exposition of ideas and information. Like explaining the Three Checks (attack, skill and attribute)... which are exactly the same! Or having examples of dwarven script and elven script, but not using the names they came up for them (iirc, davek and thellanic). Or listing those advanced types of armor, but not having prices for them, and not explaining what that "special" entry means in the text. Or having monster entries in the MM that crop off illustrations, while leaving an ungodly ammount of blank space (check the Angel and Wyvern entries for examples). Or...


I could do this all day.

Oh, I could rant on endlessly about many of those things. But I thought I'd stick to some big ticket items -- like a slight adjustment to which material went in which books that could have resulted in more options for everyone.

 

[BluSponge]

How critical do you think it is to have magic items in the PHB (done for the first time in D&D in 4E)?

If the rules are going to encourage you to create your own magic items, or swap/augment effects, then it makes perfect sense for them to be in the PHB. Before 3rd edition, it made sense for magic items to be in the DMG because they were "secret." You didn't necessarily want players to know what they were finding in a horde. But with 3e, the focus shifted to magic items as another commodity (especially in the RPGA circles). Now that players could make their own magic items, it made sense that they would want access to those rules and parameters. Same with prestige classes.

4e acknowledges this and turns the DMG into a mean, lean (??) DM teaching machine. All the hard and fast rules can be found in the PHB.

Tom

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Oh, I could rant on endlessly about many of those things. But I thought I'd stick to some big ticket items -- like a slight adjustment to which material went in which books that could have resulted in more options for everyone.

I don't think it really would have given more options. Since while some may say there would be enough space for another class or race or two. The issue comes up that, this would mean during the development process this "new material" alongside the rest and be playtested, etc, etc.

So in the end you end up having one of the less easily developed classes in, which by being in means it is not as properly constructed and/or playtested and the same would be said for the other classes.

Thus, I don't think WoTC would do it anyways. I think it is quite reasonable and in-fact good for us they left off the other classes/races so they can be developed and playtested using the corebooks as the foundation to be made as well as they can.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I dunno; if Stalker0's analysis of skill challenges is any indication I'm not going to put a lot of faith in the lessons they've learned from playtesting.

I'd probably be more confortable if I knew more about what they rejected/changed as a result of playtesting (besides "you can't use a magic ring unless you're 11th level").

 

[Ed_Laprade]

I love having the magic items in the PHB. But if given the choice of having them there or having a couple more classes? I'd rather have the classes. Well, depending on what the classes to be included were. I always liked the idea of a party of adventurers as a group of entertainers. (Bards, Illusionists, etc.)

 

[CleverNickName]

When you said "book organization", I thought you were referring to the poorly arranged exposition of ideas and information. Like explaining the Three Checks (attack, skill and attribute)... which are exactly the same! Or having examples of dwarven script and elven script, but not using the names they came up for them (iirc, davek and thellanic). Or listing those advanced types of armor, but not having prices for them, and not explaining what that "special" entry means in the text. Or having monster entries in the MM that crop off illustrations, while leaving an ungodly ammount of blank space (check the Angel and Wyvern entries for examples). Or...


I could do this all day.

It's been said in other threads, that the 4th Edition game plays well, but doesn't read well. I am inclined to agree. Rules-wise, the game seems to be on par with any other RPG product...but the books themselves seem to be written in such a way that calls attention to what is missing, not what is present.

 

[CleverNickName]

I love having the magic items in the PHB. But if given the choice of having them there or having a couple more classes? I'd rather have the classes.

QFT.

 

[Klaus]

It's been said in other threads, that the 4th Edition game plays well, but doesn't read well. I am inclined to agree. Rules-wise, the game seems to be on par with any other RPG product...but the books themselves seem to be written in such a way that calls attention to what is missing, not what is present.

In addition to great mechanics and interesting flavor, an RPG book needs to be polished with good old-fashioned writing techniques/skills in mind. And it's in this regard that the 4e books are lacking.