D&D 4E 4e Combat - Environment the Most Deadly?

[JohnSnow]

After seeing some of the hinted powers for PC's and looking over the RPG stat cards for the "Dungeons of Dread" mini expansion, I noticed that many of the powers involve pusing/pulling/shifting/teleporting.... This got me wondering. Will the environment be the most deadly aspect of a battle now? Is putting fields of lava, pits of acid, cliffs or pools of water going to be what the party or monsters focus on getting each other in? Sure, a hook horror can deal some significant damage, but who cares if they can throw you in that lava pool 4 squares away the next round.

Anyone that knows official word on this or has played some test games that dealt with this? Perhaps you can't use those movement powers in hazardous areas? It seems that the DM may have to be very responsible on what he puts in the encounter area, as it could, literally, kill the players easily.

I would guess that the rules will have something like those for zones in Mastering Iron Heroes, which treated the zones as part of the encounter, raising its threat level, and dictated what kinds of effects are appropriate at what levels.

Where those falls go, and how easy it is to fall in, should depend greatly on what level the PCs are. For example, 1st-level characters shouldn't be adventuring in places with sheer drops, narrow bridges and rivers of lava. Given that they might be pushed, pulled or otherwise moved about the battlefield, that kind of terrain would be extraordinarily hazardous.

On the other hand, falling off a bridge into the cold water below, and having a chance to grab the rope railing? That's much more reasonable. The threat level should match the ability of the characters to survive it.

Or, as I tried to say in another thread, only Gandalf should be the one falling off the bridge in the Mines of Moria.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I heard about one playtest where if someone was going to be slid/pushed into inimical terrain they got a save to stop themselves. Whether that was a case of "50% chance of avoiding it" or "make a Dex vs DC20 check" or something else, I don't know.

I would expect that they would have something in the rules to cater for last ditch avoidance of that kind of situation. Well, I hope so anyhow

 

[Kaodi]

I think the other solution, maybe not a great one, is to just avoid using creatures with those kinds of powers in those kinds of terrains. So, if you want to have a bridge over the river of lava with an encounter, use minions or something that will not be able to move PCs side to side without rolling really, really well. Conversely, use creatures that the PCs will have a good chance of doing it to themselves.

 

[spuppett]

I think I remember seeing somewhere that if you're going to get pushed into a lava pit you make a save, and if you make it you go prone rather then fall in. Prone is a great situation, but it's better then insta-lava-kill.

 

[Celebrim]

Given the lower damage/round and the relative ease of moving an enemy (of any size) around the battlefield (without a saving throw/resisted check), that yeah, the environment is the single most deadly thing around.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that the environment has taken on the role formerly taken by 'save or die' (or even 'die no save') effects from earlier edition.

On the whole, 4e is far less lethal than 3e, but no edition since 1e will be quite so lethal in the hands of RBDMs.

 

[Logos7]

I know I was rather surprised in my playtest, when the hobby came out to shout his force lance, it inadvertantly pushed a pc into the bonfire of the room before i even really noticed it was a posibility.

So yes i would say that the terrain is going to be a bigger part of the hurt now.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

I think it's a good thing that the environment has become more deadly.

It SHOULD get you killed to get thrown into a pit of lava. And if you're fighting someone next to one, it's not a stretch to imagine that both combatants try very hard to maneuver the other into it. It's what would happen in real life.

This was actually an area were my first reaction (being told not to put bottomless pits and lava flows in dungeons unless I wanted deaths) left me unhappy with the 4E direction, but where upon reflection I came around to the 4E point of view.

Ken

 

[Vradna]

So, D&D isn't WoW, it's Super Smash Brothers?

No, it is the equivalent of Fallout Tactics or Warhammer Quest

 

[WyzardWhately]

No, it is the equivalent of Fallout Tactics or Warhammer Quest

I don't recall that you could push people in Warhammer Quest...never played the other one. I was just joking around, btw.

 

[Vradna]

I don't recall that you could push people in Warhammer Quest...never played the other one. I was just joking around, btw.

I was too