D&D 4E 4E Core or Essentials?

[buddhafrog]

The Power Cards will be for the core 4e, not the essential powers - they'll be different and not too useful unless you use Essentials.

I started with core 4e - loved the concept that all players had significant choices each round including some big-power options. There was a lot of emphasis on balanced PC's with 4e. I feel they succeeded. Now, after playing many games every week for a year, I'm starting to feel that the balance is becoming tiresome. If I took away the power names and just used the effects, they'd mostly all sound the same or similar. This has led me to become a little more interested in Essentials. I've bought the books/boxes but are awaiting their arrival. While some people say that 4e core is more complex for the experienced player, my (yet-to-be-tested - just through reading) feeling is that this is true, but it could be missing the point. Essentials isn't just "more simple", but rather a different approach to characters. Some builds will look and feel different than core 4e, and in general, there will be a little less power-option focus which I hope leads to more immersive role-played combat. This little aspect is one of the things I miss about AD&D that I hope is brought back just a little with using Essentials.

This is what I'm looking for now and am eager to see if this is accurate once I start playing Essentials. For those that have played both - do you agree with what I've written?

Question: For those that have used both Essential and 4e characters in the same game - do you find that they are generally balanced?

 

[sst187]

The Power Cards will be for the core 4e, not the essential powers - they'll be different and not too useful unless you use Essentials.

I started with core 4e - loved the concept that all players had significant choices each round including some big-power options. There was a lot of emphasis on balanced PC's with 4e. I feel they succeeded. Now, after playing many games every week for a year, I'm starting to feel that the balance is becoming tiresome. If I took away the power names and just used the effects, they'd mostly all sound the same or similar. This has led me to become a little more interested in Essentials. I've bought the books/boxes but are awaiting their arrival. While some people say that 4e core is more complex for the experienced player, my (yet-to-be-tested - just through reading) feeling is that this is true, but it could be missing the point. Essentials isn't just "more simple", but rather a different approach to characters. Some builds will look and feel different than core 4e, and in general, there will be a little less power-option focus which I hope leads to more immersive role-played combat. This little aspect is one of the things I miss about AD&D that I hope is brought back just a little with using Essentials.

This is what I'm looking for now and am eager to see if this is accurate once I start playing Essentials. For those that have played both - do you agree with what I've written?

Question: For those that have used both Essential and 4e characters in the same game - do you find that they are generally balanced?

I suspected as much. This is part of what I was trying figure out and ask about. From what you are saying and the way it looks to me, 4E core and Essentials are not cross compatible. I'm I wrong about that?

 

[cavalier973]

Characters from an Essentials handbook should fit in with any 4E core adventure (that's at least what's supposed to happen). An essentials character can take just about any of the core PHB options for his class; for example, an Essentials mage could decide to use the "Archmage" epic destiny rather than the "Indomitable Champion"; an Essentials Knight should be able to take a core fighter power instead of the options given in the Essentials Handbook for that particular level.

I like how the Essentials martial characters (fighter and rogue) have been retooled; it does away with the "sameness" feel of the class powers that buddhafrog was talking about. The fighter assumes at-will stances that give him a bonus to hit or to damage, or allow the fighter to slow any creature he hits, or cause damage to an adjacent creature in addition to the one he hit. He can switch his stance as needed. I've read on another thread, however, that the fighter-knight is less able to pin enemies down, which is what the "defender role" is for.

The fighter in my game took the "Armor Finesse" feat, being a knight, he automatically got the "Shield Finesse" feat, which means that he can wear plate armor and tote a heavy shield with no armor penalties to skill checks, etc.

The rogue uses movement "tricks" instead of powers; the thief in my game has two tricks, one that allows him to move then attack with combat advantage against an enemy that has no adjacent allies (and thus getting sneak attack damage), and the other that allows him to shift two squares, then knock the enemy prone if he hits it. He has bloodied a previously undamaged enemy in one blow on more than one occasion.

An advantage of getting the core books is the wide variety of magic items that are listed in the PHB; the essentials handbooks are rather sparse with the loot.

 

[cavalier973]

Re: Magic Missile. This power was errata'd so that it is an "always damage" power. The old power card in your pack is technically out of date; but that's no reason not to use it as it was originally designed for 4E. Throughout the handbooks there are asides reminding you that it's your game, and anything you want to change is up to you. In my game, I'm accelerating the level advancement of the characters to every 5 encounters instead of the 8 to 10 encounters suggested by the books.

I guess it's no surprise if I say that I really like the essentials products; I've owned the core books for over a year, and never did anything with them except read them and make up character sheets that I never used. When I bought the Essentials products, I actually was motivated to gather my kids together and play the game with them.

 

[sst187]

Re: Magic Missile. This power was errata'd so that it is an "always damage" power. The old power card in your pack is technically out of date; but that's no reason not to use it as it was originally designed for 4E. Throughout the handbooks there are asides reminding you that it's your game, and anything you want to change is up to you. In my game, I'm accelerating the level advancement of the characters to every 5 encounters instead of the 8 to 10 encounters suggested by the books.

I guess it's no surprise if I say that I really like the essentials products; I've owned the core books for over a year, and never did anything with them except read them and make up character sheets that I never used. When I bought the Essentials products, I actually was motivated to gather my kids together and play the game with them.

I think that your reply has helped me to see that perhaps I was /am being too rigid in trying to sort out and apply the rules. I really agree with what you just said and I think I will go ahead and use the older Magic Missile. This has just been a great deal for me to absorb after having been away since 2ED. All of you have helped me so much in such a short time. I do realize that the game is to have flexibility but I also want to play by and teach my son to play by the rules at least somewhat. I think I just need to temper that desire a bit. Someone mentioned earlier that there was a great deal of "loot" missing from the "Heros" books and I noticed that also. So, I am almost positive now that I will acquire the PHB just for that alone.

 

[buddhafrog]

....All of you have helped me so much in such a short time....

Agreed. Hands down, this is the best place on the web to learn how to play D&D. Without Enworld I'm not sure where I'd be with D&D right now - possibly not playing - which means my son and the 20+ kids I play with wouldn't be playing either. Good work building new players everyone!