D&D 4E 4E Core or Essentials?

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

When creating a character, bookmark pg 32-33 in Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms.

Is there any step in particular that is causing problems?

Regarding ability checks, refer to pg 101-109 in the Dungeon Master's Book. <==GoodStuff

This is also covered in the DMGI (in particular, see pg 42), but the numbers in the Difficulty Class by Level table there have been updated to match the Essentials DMB.

Please ask if you have still have questions.

 

[UnknownAtThisTime]

I sat down with my son on Wednesday evening and proceeded to create some new characters. WOW ... it is not a fully intuitive process! I figured the process would be easier with the Essentials book but I guess I miss-judged.

This is why I personally suggested using the CB with a DDI subscription, at least initially. I would have skipped the DMG and got the DDI sub. (As an old schooler, I have to fully agree that the hard cover books are just so much more awesome-er though).

 

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

Seems like I'm the only one who has no problem whipping up characters by hand, but finds the character builder complicated and annoying to use.

 

[buddhafrog]

I started playing with my son last year which also led me back to this hobby - after a 25 year break. It's been amazing for both of us.

I'd say start with Essentials. There is no need to do both at first. If you find you want more options, then go ahead.

But most importantly, I wonder if you were able to download the old Character Builder? If so, browsing through that will let you know what various options you're missing and if those options would really justify buying the core 4e system. You could of course subscribe to the online builder as well. It has all the info but is lacking in other areas.

 

[buddhafrog]

Well I went out and bought the DM Kit, the Monster Vault, Hero's Of The Forgotten Kingdoms, and the Dungeon Masters Guide I. The Essentials stuff is nicely done though I must say that I still prefer hardback books. So I sat down with my son on Wednesday evening and proceeded to create some new characters. WOW ... it is not a fully intuitive process! I figured the process would be easier with the Essentials book but I guess I miss-judged. We were finally at least somewhat successful but I am still unsure on several points. Perhaps it is I am not the sharpest spoon in the drawer but I would think a "flow chart" of the process would be most helpful. I also was surprised at how much the needed information was spread out around the book. It has been many years but I seem to remember character creation in 1st & 2nd edition being much easier. I am also still unclear about whether or not Essentials is compatible with the original books.

One question on characters I have right now that seems unclear from the book is how is and Ability Check determined? Where does that number come from?

I love this thread b/c I feel like I'm reliving my past year....

Really, I recommend a one-month subscription to the builder. First, you'll get your flow chart and be able to run through making some characters and feel much more comfortable that you know the process. It'll be extremely helpful. Second, it's loads of fun and your son will probably get a real kick out of it. It's much faster, you see all these options in front of you, and you get a much greater sense of the variety possible.

As someone who jumped from AD&D to 4e after my 25 year break, I was pretty dismissive of the Character Builder. However, it is the single most important and useful thing that I use for myself and my son (and the 20 other kids that I play with).

 

[Dice4Hire]

Seems like I'm the only one who has no problem whipping up characters by hand, but finds the character builder complicated and annoying to use.

You are not. I refuse to use the CB as I cna od the work myself. I would strongly suggest that, to learn the rules better, new players should do the work by hand. It can be nigh impossible to figure out where random numbers on the finished sheet are coming from.

 

[cavalier973]

An ability check is based off the ability's modifier + 1/2 the character's level (rounded down). So, a 3rd level fighter with 18 strength would have a strength check bonus of 5 points. If you are trying to bash through a door, the DM arbitrarily sets a difficulty score to beat, say 15. Your fighter would have to roll a 10 or higher on a d20 to succeed. When he levels up to 4, his ability check bonus increases to 6.

On skill checks, if you are trained in a particular skill, you get another 5 bonus points added. So the aforementioned 3rd level fighter is trained in athletics; he wants to scale a cliff that the DM assigned a difficulty of 24; the fighter would have to roll at least a 14 on the d20.

 

[cavalier973]

I bought the core books early on, then recently purchased the redbox/HotFL/DM kit/Monster Vault. I prefer the essentials line, but my personality is such that I like clear-cut, easy-to-manage adventure classes. Also, the errata up to this point is included, and that's the main reason I coveted the Essentials products.

One of the things in the core DMG that I was sorry wasn't included in the Essentials DM kit was a section for doing a random dungeon crawl (roll 1-5, the hall makes a right-hand turn, roll a 18-20, you run up on some monsters, etc.).

The Red Box, DM kit, and Monster Vault have adventures in them that take the characters from level 1 through level 4 (well, the Monster Vault's adventure is "for characters of 4th level, so presumably at its end the characters are ready to level to 5). They're all set in the generic "Points of Light" world that 4E uses as the default campaign realm.

 

[sst187]

An ability check is based off the ability's modifier + 1/2 the character's level (rounded down). So, a 3rd level fighter with 18 strength would have a strength check bonus of 5 points. If you are trying to bash through a door, the DM arbitrarily sets a difficulty score to beat, say 15. Your fighter would have to roll a 10 or higher on a d20 to succeed. When he levels up to 4, his ability check bonus increases to 6.

On skill checks, if you are trained in a particular skill, you get another 5 bonus points added. So the aforementioned 3rd level fighter is trained in athletics; he wants to scale a cliff that the DM assigned a difficulty of 24; the fighter would have to roll at least a 14 on the d20.

Thank you very much! That has helped very much to clarify it for me. I thought that was where the number came from but was not 100% sure.

Thank you again to all of you for such thoughtful and helpful replies. I would tend to agree that making the characters by "hand" really does help cement the concept in ones mind. However, I always try to keep an open mind so I will also be getting a 1 month to DDI and checking out the CB there. I must say after being away from the game for almost 25 years that so much has changed. I thought I might be disappointed but so far, I really like 4th ED. I am also still wondering if I am missing anything by starting with Essentials and even if not, I can see myself getting the original core books. One more thing ... I brought home some power cards for my son last night and they are of course from the PHB. He had been using the power cards from the Red Box. As we were swapping them out, we noticed that there were not cards for some of the powers his characters have and some, like magic missile, are different. The magic missile from the PHB power cards is different from the magic missile from the Red Box power cards. I am assuming this is due to the differences between Core and Essentials? That led me to wonder, which one to use?

 

[sst187]

Seems like I'm the only one who has no problem whipping up characters by hand, but finds the character builder complicated and annoying to use.

I will download and check it out!