4e Cosmology Changes

[LeaderDesslok]

At the end of 2nd edition Wizards came out with a module called "Die, Vecna, Die!" In a nutshell, the lich Vecna attempts to become a god by destroying the multiverse. The end result was supposed to prepare your campaign world for thechanges to 3E, including cosmology.

I think that module would have played very nicely for the transition to 4E as well, and the ending cosmology, being such a drastic change, would have been far more exciting.

I have no real problems with the change to the planes.

 

[Kaodi]

Not sure that it has been mentioned, but a big difference between 3e Planes and 4e Planes is that in 4e, Astral Dominions and the Abyss are decidedly finite.

A good side effect of the Astral Sea, I think, is that you can insert as many more Astral Dominions as you like and still be consistent, whereas in the old Great Wheel, what you saw in the Outer Planes was what you got.

 

[pogminky]

Totally off-topic:

thundershot, your grammar animation sig..... doesn't don't have an apostrophe?

 

[malraux]

in 4e, ... the Abyss [is] decidedly finite.

Wait, did I miss something? I had though the Abyss is still infinitely deep. Worlds and Monsters seems to support this, but I'm still waiting on my core set to read through in detail.

 

[Mallus]

I never liked the D&D cosmology. I found it convoluted and simplistic at the same time. It seemed like the product of a second-string science fiction author trying to write mythology and not doing a very good job at it. So I'm not sad to see the Great Wheel go.

I like the 4e default cosmology better, which is to say I'm going to use some elements of it in the new homebrew I'm collaborating on, instead of 'nothing at all'.

 

[hexgrid]

I like the new cosmology because it's very inclusive- you can drop anything into the Astral Sea. I'd already been using this concept in 3e, by way of the Malhavoc Press "Endless Worlds" cosmology.

I'm still a big fan of the Great Wheel and Planescape, but I don't have an emotional investment in their status as default D&D.

 

[Shemeska]

Is it?

I thought it was as close to and far away from everything else as was necessary for the DM's particular story (since they all now float in the Astral Plane rather than taking up clearly defined places relative to each other on the Wheel).

The Wheel structure was always just a conceptual diagram of the planes. They didn't have hard physical boundaries (just perhaps a tendency to have more gates to "adjacent" planes than others). There are no clearly defined spaces with multiple unbound and infinite planes like those of the Outer Planes of the Great Wheel. They're more bound in 4e's Astral Sea (being all collapsed into what amounts to demiplanes within the Astral Sea).

 

[hexgrid]

There are no clearly defined spaces with multiple unbound and infinite planes like those of the Outer Planes of the Great Wheel. They're more bound in 4e's Astral Sea (being all collapsed into what amounts to demiplanes within the Astral Sea).

Where does it say that 4e astral dominions are finite?

 

[Shemeska]

Where does it say that 4e astral dominions are finite?

I never said they were. I said they were more bound in 4e, which isn't the same thing as being finite (though I've seen a move towards finite planes, given the 4e Abyss apparently being finite in size).

 

[I'm A Banana]

I'm a planescape fan.

I kind of dig the new cosmology.

The important thing for me to remember is that this actually doesn't nix the other planes in the Great Wheel necessarily, it just relegates them to "lesser importance to material-plane characters," which is fine for me. Domains in the Astral Sea, or even other worlds with other heavens and hells, are not ruled out by this. And that's how I see the planes as a whole getting richer with this new layout.

There's still room for the bloodwar, and that helps define the PS feel as distinct a bit better if there is no blood war as far as the Prime characters are concerned.

There's still room for Mechanus and that helps define the PS feel as distinct a bit better if there is no Mechanus as far as the Prime characters are concerned.

It helps define that "D&D with a Twist" vibe that I so dig.