D&D 4E 4E Devils vs. Demons article

[Cam Banks]

They didn't represent an objective, tangible Evil. They were (for lack of a better term) the mortal conception of various flavors of vice and evil writ large and given substance, while the fiends were manifestations of an older or more primal abstract evil.

So, the gods are dependent on mortal worship/faith?

That's one of the things Krynnish deities don't have as a limitation.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Sundragon2012]

So, the gods are dependent on mortal worship/faith?

That's one of the things Krynnish deities don't have as a limitation.

Cheers,
Cam

Thank god for that. Krynn got this right. I hope that the whole PS assumption of gods needing worshippers goes down the drain as a universal D&Dism. Every setting should have its own rules on how this works.

Interesting how Krynn might be the only official WoTC setting where the gods actually predate the existance of all mortal life. Wow, gods older than aboleth, Demogorgon and Asmodeus....amazing. In D&D this is as rare as teeth in a chicken.

Weird how gods have been getting the shaft since PS while fiends are getting oodles and oodles of love.


Sundragon

 

[blargney the second]

Weird how gods have been getting the shaft since PS while fiends are getting oodles and oodles of love.

Hey, some relationships are like that.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Thank god for that. Krynn got this right. I hope that the whole PS assumption of gods needing worshippers goes down the drain as a universal D&Dism. Every setting should have its own rules on how this works.
Sundragon

While I agree that every universe should have its own rules, I really love the idea of gods needing believers to gain power. Because this is true for all philosophical concepts.
But in some settings, gods might not be just philosophical concepts - there they are forces of nature, like Gravity or the Eletromagnetic Force - you don't need to belief in light to be affected by it (you also don't need to be able to see it.)

Personally, I usually prefer the "philosophical" gods, but I am an atheist. But a game setting in which Gods are not dependent on followers might be interesting...

(Interesting "Side Thought": Imagine a campaign where gods only exist because people belief in them - what happens if the PCs reach epic levels and want to achieve godhood and find out that they have to keep the peoples belief up, or otherwise they'll die?)

 

[M.L. Martin]

I hope that the whole PS assumption of gods needing worshippers goes down the drain as a universal D&Dism. Every setting should have its own rules on how this works.
Sundragon

I don't care much for the concept, but I don't think it's based on PS. It seems to be taken as a given long before Planescape came on the scene. In the article "The Perils of Prehistory" by Gregory W. Detwiler in DRAGON #175 (November 1991), there's this line: "For a change of pace in your fantasy world, assume that the gods created the world or were created along with it, and did not have to wait until worshipers [sic] appeared to give them life." (p. 20, emphasis added)

So it looks like it was part of the zeitgeist at least three years before Planescape launched. I believe the Realms had already adopted the concept; anyone know anything else about how this bit got added to the D&D melange?

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Thank god for that. Krynn got this right. I hope that the whole PS assumption of gods needing worshippers goes down the drain as a universal D&Dism. Every setting should have its own rules on how this works.

I seem to remember that this was canon back in 1st edition. At least, if you were planning to become a god, you were well-advised to assemble a cult of worshippers first, then try to unseat an incumbent. However, my memory is fuzzy from those days.