Jack Daniel
dice-universe.blogspot.com
What is it about 4E that pisses people off so much? Can I ask this question without it becoming an edition war? I am not talking about specific things, whether we're talking about martial powers or dragonborn; those are all secondary factors, details, many of which I dislike in 4E. I don't like many things, and don't use them in my game. Overall I would say that the merits of 4E far outweigh its faults, and therefore it is a highly enjoyable experience. I would say the same thing about any edition of D&D. But something about 4E inspires more aggression than any other edition; you don't have people saying, "God, I hate 2E! It is not D&D at all." You might have people saying, "What an awkward game 2E was, and may THAC0 rest in peace." But you don't get the hatred.
It's just a gut reaction that 4e is so fundamentally different from every other version of D&D. It did away with too many things that other editions, 0 through 3, kept in common. Just to give an example:
0e Orc: AC 7, HD 1d8 (4 hp), MV 90' (30'), AL C, #AT 1, dmg 1d6, SV F1, ML 6 (8)
1e Orc: AC 6, HD 1d8 (4 hp), MV 9", AL LE, #AT 1, dmg 1d8
2e Orc: AC 6, HD 1d8 (4 hp), MV 9, AL LE, #AT 1, dmg 1d8, ML 11-12, THAC0 19
3e Orc: AC 13, HD 1d8+1 (5 hp), speed 30', init +0, attack +4 melee (falchion, 2d4+4/18-20) +1 ranged (javelin, 1d6+3), SQ darkvision 60', light sensitivity, saves F +3 R +0 W +2, abilities Str 17, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 7, Cha 6, skills Listen +1, Spot +1, feats Alertness, align CE.
4e Orc:
Battletested Orc, Level 3 Soldier, XP 150.
HP 50, bloodied 25. Init +5.
AC 19, Fort 17, Ref 15, Will 13. Perception +1.
Speed 6 (8 charging). Low-light vision.
Standard Actions:
- Battleaxe (weapon) * At-Will
Attack: melee 1 (one creature); +8 vs. AC
Hit: 1d10 + 5 damage, or 1d10 + 10 on a charge attack
- Handaxe (weapon) * At-Will (4/encounter)
Attack: ranged 5/10 (one creature); +8 vs. AC
Hit: 1d6+5 damage.
- Hacking Frenzy (weapon) * Recharge 5-6
Attack: Close burst 1 (enemies in burst); +6 vs. AC
Hit: 1d10+5 damage, and the target is marked until the end of the orc's next turn.
Effect: The orc grants combat advantage until the start of its next turn.
Triggered Actions:
- Savage Demise * Encounter
Trigger: The orc drops to 0 hp
Effect (Immediate Interrupt): The orc takes a standard action.
Str 18 (+5), Dex 14 (+3), Wis 10 (+1)
Con 18 (+5), Int 8 (+0), Cha 9 (+0)
Alignment chaotic evil; Equipment scale armor, heavy shield, battleaxe, 4 handaxes
=========
Okay, take a look at the stat blocks needed to actually have an orc appear in your game and fight a PC. The 0e, 1e, and 2e stat blocks are essentially the same, and they contain nearly the same information. (I've left out the entries on number appearing, % in lair, and treasure type -- but these things aren't combat stats, don't appear in modules, and have no equivalent in a 4e stat block, so it doesn't exactly matter.) The 3e stat block is more complicated, to be sure, but only because it includes ability scores, skills, feats, and some more specific information about saves and attacks. It's still recognizable as D&D, and frankly I could use 3e stat blocks to run a 0e game by merely flipping the AC and ignoring the extraneous stuff (like feats) that have no bearing on the earlier rules. But 4e... that's just a different animal. That orc doesn't have four or five hit points, it has fifty. That's a different game. Self-evidently, beyond argument, different from what's come before.
Again, this isn't to knock 4e or judge whether it's good or bad. It's just obviously very different.
Last edited: