4E Eberron: Kalashtar = Deva? I disagree.

[Jhaelen]

I think this poll is seriously flawed.

EDIT: I think the poll covers all the important options, because I don't believe that one can care about how Kalashtar are represented and still be perfectly ambivalent towards whether or not Kalashtar are replaced by Deva.

I disagree. Kalashtar are easily one of my favorite races in 3E Eberron (the other being Changelings) but I wouldn't have a problem if they were represented using 'reskinned' Devas if they're mechanically similar.

Reskinning is definitely one of my favorite tools in 4E both for pcs and for monsters.

 

[doctorhook]

I think this poll is seriously flawed.

...

I disagree. Kalashtar are easily one of my favorite races in 3E Eberron (the other being Changelings) but I wouldn't have a problem if they were represented using 'reskinned' Devas if they're mechanically similar.

Reskinning is definitely one of my favorite tools in 4E both for pcs and for monsters.

Reskinning is a great tool for D&D! However, in this case I believe that reskinning one as the other in Eberron would rob the setting of an interesting character concept, either Kalashtars or Devas. My premise is that Kalashtar and Devas aren't similar thematically, and therefore ought not to be similar mechanically, and furthermore shouldn't be combined or reskinned into a single race.

As for the poll, obviously it's getting a bad response, so if anyone has the power to delete it, please do so.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I also think the poll options are a bit too extreme. I don't really think that Devas and Kalashtar are identical, but I do think there is a lot of significant overlap. They have their differences, but they are still both races associated with good-aligned outsiders bound to human form in some way or another, inheriting memories of former versions of themselves in some manner. Devas and Kalashtar resemble each other far more than Kalashtar and Elan do, and they are more similar than Devas and Tieflings are, at the very least. In other words, they are far more similar to each other than they are to races that otherwise quite similar to one or the other.

I guess, I don't really expect WotC to say that Devas and Kalashtar are the same, and I am not encouraging them to make them the same, but I wouldn't complain if they did. No matter what, with Devas in the game they need to do something to establish a clearer difference between the two races and make Kalashtar a bit more unique again if they want to put that race into 4E. Certainly, since WotC isn't going to bring back the power point mechanic, they won't use power points to distinguish "innately psionic races" (which is good since it was a terrible idea to make certain races innately good at certain categories of classes), so they need to do something other than rely on the "psionic races are different" idea.

Kalashtar really need an even greater focus on the entire "shared spirit" idea, I think. The fact that Kalashtar have true supernatural bonds uniting their communities is the one significant thing that really makes them different from Devas, so that needs to be focused upon if Kalashtar are created as their own race.

 

[Barcode]

Eberron's use of established core races as a mechanical means to deliver a race that has significantly different fluff is already well precedented. The Aerenal elves, the Drow, and the Talenta Halflings are all examples of races whose fluff is significantly different from core. Yet, the design team consistently defend the use of core mechanics and eschew the use of subraces and other mechanical modifications (often to an unnecessary extreme, in my opinion).

So, I can certainly see them using the Deva's core mechanic to support the Kalashtar's fluff, if it fits well. That said, it would not be hard to add Devas to the setting as a standalone race - Shavarrath is already a site of constant warfare between Angels, Demons and Devils, and another poster has already pointed out the manifest zone in Sharn.

My initial preference would be for Kalashtar mechanically designed to be Kalashtars, but I'd reserve judgment until I saw the product.

 

[Stogoe]

Eberron's use of established core races as a mechanical means to deliver a race that has significantly different fluff is already well precedented. The Aerenal elves, the Drow, and the Talenta Halflings are all examples of races whose fluff is significantly different from core. Yet, the design team consistently defend the use of core mechanics and eschew the use of subraces and other mechanical modifications (often to an unnecessary extreme, in my opinion).

So, I can certainly see them using the Deva's core mechanic to support the Kalashtar's fluff, if it fits well.

I agree. I guess I just don't see any impetus for separate mechanics beyond a reactionary grasp at the traditions of previous editions.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I agree. I guess I just don't see any impetus for separate mechanics beyond a reactionary grasp at the traditions of previous editions.

I think it's obvious: deva and kalashtar are not the same. This isn't like saying halflings live in nomadic tribes and ride dinosaurs, but are still small, quick, et cetera.

Kalashtar don't reincarnate, and even if you forget about the specific flavour - they don't get benefits based on their dreamlike shared memories. The "Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes" ability isn't appropriate for them. Instead, they need something which approximates their psionic abilities from previous editions.

 

[I'm A Banana]

4e-based answer = "If the mechanics are/can be the same, then they're the same -- fluff doesn't matter."

Personal answer = "The flavor is different, so the mechanics should be different. The game experience should be different. Playing a reincarnated race should not be mechanically like playing a psychic race that shares a soul."

Jurassic Park Answer = "You spent so much time thinking about whether or not you could that you forgot about whether or not you should."

That last one probably applies to about 90% of 4e.

 

[doctorhook]

I think it's obvious: deva and kalashtar are not the same. This isn't like saying halflings live in nomadic tribes and ride dinosaurs, but are still small, quick, et cetera.

Kalashtar don't reincarnate, and even if you forget about the specific flavour - they don't get benefits based on their dreamlike shared memories. The "Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes" ability isn't appropriate for them. Instead, they need something which approximates their psionic abilities from previous editions.

I really think you understand what I am trying to say here.

 

[James Bass]

You should check my post out, since I'm playing a Deva in Eberron. I feel both are different
, but I have a connection to most of the immortals, including the quori, the one I'm playing. I would like any advice on it. Thanks

Deva in Eberron, my ideas.

 

[Shroomy]

Well, with the release of the EPG, this question has been answered. They're not similar.